Switching Batters Boxes in Pony baseball

[SAump]

"Doing this indicates to everyone that you just signaled a strike when you meant ball four."

Real UMPIRES don't raise either hand or BUTT while pausing to call BALL (1-4). That is the proper mechanic and the strike mechanic is entirely different. It has nothing to do with extending the arm outward. It doesn't indicate a strike to everyone when I meant ball four. But you would ignore the proper mechanics to make up your story.

[SAump]

"call ball four and raise your right arm to point to first. Most umpires raise their right arms to call strikes! .... simple but tragic mistakes"

Now I never said "pointing" did I?

Yet
"Please don't point to your right after calling a ball." Isn't that what you do after calling a strike?"
and
"But one should never point to first on ball four."

Isn't that what you do after calling a strike? Point at somebody else. Your sisters are now spreading the same story. I think they already believe your mistaken POINTS. Simple enough, but tragic.

Funny I may have laughed at the batter for losing track of the count. But EVERYBODY I know extends their right arm to signal SAFE too. It is funnier NOW that YOU misinterpret extending a right arm outward for ONLY a strike. I suppose you only use your left hand for wiping the plate clean (PG). I suppose YOU signal SAFE by pointing in both directions. Now that is funny.

[umpduck11]

I just keep telling myself, "Find your
hapy place....find your happy place", and
maybe it will all go away.

[SAump]

First the base on ball award created confusion and then the check swing appeal created confusion. Your little group of friends seem to confuse every right handed signal for a strike. Now that is the most popular call. So why are they confused if your driving around the country holding personal clinics? ENUF SAID, you need not answer.

[SAump]

"... YADA YADA YADA ... one of the newbies said, "Ball Four, take your base." I asked him if he plans to say, "Strike Three, you're out." He said no and I asked him why he thought he needed to give instruction to a 12 year old player."

He said NO because the dropped third strike rule doesn't apply to 12-year olds.

[SAump]

ADVICE FOR NEWBIE: Don't RAISE your right arm and point after a strike call. People in TEXAS will LAUGH at YOU.

However, there are many situations in baseball that may require an umpire to raise his right arm and point. I would take the time to list them all off the top of my head, but I wouldn't want you to confuse them with your INCORRECT strike call mechanic. I stopped after NINE, but I could have easily listed FIVE more on my mind. Thought I would give it a REST and give you time to get a CLUE. Can you name the ONE I didn't LIST FIRST?

1 PLAY BALL
2 LIVE BALL
3 FAIR BALL
4 One OUT
5 Home Run
6 One More Warmup Pitch Pitcher
7 Take Your Base AWARD Batter
8 He's out right there (1st out of DP)
9 Your outta here (ejection)

One thing is for sure, your advice not to point after ball four is inconsitent with the rulebook. Perhaps you should think first before you join in on the chicken dance.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by SAump
ADVICE FOR NEWBIE: Don't RAISE your right arm and point after a strike call. People in TEXAS will LAUGH at YOU.

No they won't, they see real umpires do it all the time. Even, may I add, many MLB umpires!!! I lived in Texas for 11 years, and attended many games, and not one time did anyone laugh at the way the umpire pointed on strike calls.

One thing is for sure, your advice not to point after ball four is inconsitent with the rulebook. Perhaps you should think first before you join in on the chicken dance.

[/b]

What rule????

Please!!!!! I am begging you!!!!! Show us the rule that says this!!!

Please show us one single umpire manual that teaches this mechanic!!!

Name one professional umpire school or clinic that teaches this mechanic!!!

It is not the umpires job to show the batter-runner where first base is located.

[SAump]

No umpire, worth his SALT points to FIRST BASE after a strike unless he thinks he's SCARFACE. Did you not read the BASEBALL POINTERS. The strike call in TEXAS does not include a RAISED RIGHT ARM POINTED to FIRST BASE, or to the side for that matter, after a strike call.

But once again, you're always asking to see something in WRITING. Then you twist my words around and DUCK afterwards. Your silly group of friends JUMP right in to repeat your words as if I was the one who wrote them.

Why don't YOU get your little mechanic book out and quote it for us. Why don't you explain the RULE since you seem to think you already know the rule. If you know so much, why do you hide it so well? That's the only consistent theme I have noticed on this board.

Now watch all the so-called experts chime right in and claim they RAISED THEIR RIGHT ARM AFTER A STRIKE CALL. Predictable and WRONG.



[Edited by SAump on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 09:54 PM]

[SAump]

Any of you more methodological experts ever gonna answer this?

Please respond to how multiple batters toying with opposing pitcher through 7 half-innings of baseball equates to ONE BATTER switching places in a batters box during ONE at-bat?

And you presume it is legal. I think your last position was that you would allow the toying to continue throughout the entire ballgame because you CAN'T stop it as long as its LEGAL.

The game is about to end. The ten run rule is in effect. The score is (ahhh) 22-7. Gotta get away anytime soon or are you still gonna allow the coach to hang around?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by SAump
ADVICE FOR NEWBIE: Don't RAISE your right arm and point after a strike call. People in TEXAS will LAUGH at YOU.

However, there are many situations in baseball that may require an umpire to raise his right arm and point. I would take the time to list them all off the top of my head, but I wouldn't want you to confuse them with your INCORRECT strike call mechanic. I stopped after NINE, but I could have easily listed FIVE more on my mind. Thought I would give it a REST and give you time to get a CLUE. Can you name the ONE I didn't LIST FIRST?

1 PLAY BALL
2 LIVE BALL
3 FAIR BALL
4 One OUT
5 Home Run
6 One More Warmup Pitch Pitcher
7 Take Your Base AWARD Batter
8 He's out right there (1st out of DP)
9 Your outta here (ejection)

One thing is for sure, your advice not to point after ball four is inconsitent with the rulebook. Perhaps you should think first before you join in on the chicken dance.

Inconsistent with the rule book? Reference please.

Most of the items on the list do not occur after a pitch. A raised right hand after a pitch (that is not batted) is *usually* a strike call. Thus, a raised right hand after a pitch will *usually* be interpreted as a strike call. If the umpire means something different, then there's the possibility for confusion. To minimize the confusion, the umpire should use a different method of conveying the information.

On the "Multiple batters switching boxes" issue -- all (most?) of us agree that it's bush-league. Dealing with it becomes a game-management issue though, not a rules issue. You can't tell the team not to switch boxes. You can tell them to act only in a sporting manner (at least in most less-than-pro leagues -- in pro-leagues, the issue will resolve itself with 5.25 oz @ 90mph into the ribs).

I'm not going to take the time to go back through the thread to see what you actually wrote -- but what I read (and it might be my error) is that you indicated that the act of switching was illegal. It's not.

[mcrowder]

You chop off one head of the hydra and another one grows in it's place.

I used to correct people like this in fear that a newer umpire would read this horribly Rollie-esque incorrect advice, and use it in a game.

I no longer have the energy. I propose we simply ignore the noise coming from the leaky faucet - all attempts at correcting the plumbing problem simply cause the faucet to increase in volume.

From now on, I will ignore and move on. I ask you to do the same.

[SAump]

I think I wrote this on the board before. But let me POINT IT OUT again for the (mind) readers. I want it to be clear before that small group of dimwits takes it out of context repeatedly and runs with it again/again/again.

"I already know he is not gonna look back and see me pointing towards 1B" (after BALL FOUR). Who turned my A-words around? He may hear me say "BALL FOUR" as a reminder to take his base. Who added "Take YOUR BASE" to the end of my BALL FOUR comment? I never said I properly signal OUT by pointing either. Thanks for going there WINDY. I am NOT attacking the im-posters, just POINTING OUT a very well-ORCHESTRATED strategy to NEWBIES who may read adulterated comments on this board in the future.

I have already stated my BALL mechanic. Please review and comment if you differ. I haven't written about my strike mechanic because I was still POINTING OUT when to properly POINT. We're up to 10 now and there are still several left to call. Please feel free to point out the obvious.

I have already commented on how I find it hard to believe yOOOs confuses the most used signal in baseball, one taught at every LL clinic in the country. "To minimize the confusion, the umpire should use a different method of conveying the information." Perhaps to avoid the obvious trap, I'll stay lurking (once again) while the rest of yOOOs dust off the manual and brighten us-less-experienced.

---------------
I apologize for my wimp comment. I now know how sensitive you dimwits feel. I think most of yOOOs will allow switching boxes to continue for 7 innings (about 2+ hours). Still think your job doesn't include promoting the spirit of the game at all times? I am still waiting to see a different game management methodology from any of the rest of you yaOOO's. Put your best foot forward.

[SAump]

I listed 9 points when an UMPIRE should raise his right hand and POINT. You don't use any of these signals to call a strike. There is a signal and mechanic to properly communicate a strike. If you confuse any of these signals for a strike call, which may or may not require finger pointing, then people in TEXAS and MOST of BASEBALL will laugh at you, instead.

The "Take Your Base Award Batter" is actually a Base on Balls AWARD that is not communicated to the batter. The catcher and batter should hear the original BALL call. The Base on Balls AWARD is communicated to the scorekeeper who may not hear the umpire's Ball 4 call because he is sitting in the cooler press box AC. I suppose he can see the batter THROW the bat and run to first, but an umpire's signal makes it OFFICIAL.

I guess some umpires just don't signal at all. Their union boss probably okayed it after complaints to allow them to remove their thin polo shirts from under the plate coat on a hot night, but that is another story. SO now there is one less signal to raise their right hand for. Some have already swtiched to the left hand toward the 1B umpire just to check to see if the batter committed a check-swing. I think its entirely okay for the ambidextrous veteran, but its a little too much to ask from us right-handed NEWBIE types. Just get a clue coach, what more do you want our union officials to cave into?

STANDARD baseball terminology and definitions are easily transmitted through proper signals and mechanics. Believe me, NO ONE will be confused about the pointing unless they saw you make some unrecognizable strike call. The UMPIRES on this board know to expect anything from a NEWBIE. It is there purpose in life to correct you, to improve your mechanics and to avoid any further confusion. Check that again, CREATE CONFUSION for entertainment purposes only.

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by SAump
I listed 9 points when an UMPIRE should raise his right hand and POINT. You don't use any of these signals to call a strike.

With the exception of you mentioning the improper base on balls award mechanic none of the items you listed above are relevant to this discussion. You mentioned that people would laugh at an umpire for signalling strikes by pointing to the right. You're sadly mistaken if you truly believe this. The hammering motion to indicate a strike is a relatively new mechanic. For years the signal used for indicating a strike has been the point to the right. You'll find that most of the veteran umpires still use this mechanic. We've all made it very clear that using a pointing motion with the right hand on a base on balls award is the improper thing to do. I suggest before you continue to argue about this you watch some professional or even college level umpires call a game or two. You won't see any of them use this mechanic you suggest beacuse it's frowned upon in every umpiring school or clinic.

Originally posted by SAump
There is a signal and mechanic to properly communicate a strike. If you confuse any of these signals for a strike call, which may or may not require finger pointing, then people in TEXAS and MOST of BASEBALL will laugh at you, instead.

Well, I'm not from Texas, but Carl, PWL , and Mike Crowder are Texans. I would suspect that all of them would tell you that using the hammer to indicate strikes is not the only acceptable mechanic used in Texas.

Originally posted by SAump
The "Take Your Base Award Batter" is actually a Base on Balls AWARD that is not communicated to the batter. The catcher and batter should hear the original BALL call. The Base on Balls AWARD is communicated to the scorekeeper who may not hear the umpire's Ball 4 call because he is sitting in the cooler press box AC. I suppose he can see the batter THROW the bat and run to first, but an umpire's signal makes it OFFICIAL.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that an umpire needs to make a verbal announcment to a scorekeeper for a base on balls?

Originally posted by SAump
I guess some umpires just don't signal at all. Their union boss probably okayed it after complaints to allow them to remove their thin polo shirts from under the plate coat on a hot night, but that is another story. SO now there is one less signal to raise their right hand for.

It's not a guess. Experienced umpires do not signal a base on balls with a point. It's just that simple. This has nothing to do with your statement about their 'unions'. It has nothing to do with them being lazy. It has to do with proper protocol so as not to confuse anyone.

Originally posted by SAump
Some have already swtiched to the left hand toward the 1B umpire just to check to see if the batter committed a check-swing. I think its entirely okay for the ambidextrous veteran, but its a little too much to ask from us right-handed NEWBIE types. Just get a clue coach, what more do you want our union officials to cave into?

No one has switched to anything. Using the left hand to go to your partner for help on a check swing has always been the proper mechanic. What does being a newbie have to do with using your left arm to signal the appeal? Are you suggesting it's too much work for you, or are you saying it's too hard for you to remember to use the proper mechanic.

Originally posted by SAump
STANDARD baseball terminology and definitions are easily transmitted through proper signals and mechanics. Believe me, NO ONE will be confused about the pointing unless they saw you make some unrecognizable strike call. The UMPIRES on this board know to expect anything from a NEWBIE. It is there purpose in life to correct you, to improve your mechanics and to avoid any further confusion. Check that again, CREATE CONFUSION for entertainment purposes only.

I would address this last paragraph if I could understand what you were trying to say.


Tim.

[Tim C]

No "real" (tm) umpire would ever point to first base on a base on balls.

Even in San Antonio.

I have never told a pitcher he has "one warm up pitch" left.

But any thread with SAUmp or PWL on board eventually winds up being funny stuff.

~SIGH~