The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 10:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Send a message via AIM to michael15544 Send a message via Yahoo to michael15544
Pro-Rules:
Runner on third base. Count is 3-0 to the batter. Ball 4 is issued to the batter. Umpire calls ball 4 and the batter throws his bat to the dugout while standing in the batters box. In the process of doing that the catcher pops up and throws the ball down to 3rd base to try to pick off the runner. Right after the catcher throws the ball, the ball hits the bat in mid air and the ball falls to the ground a few feet from the catcher. The batter runs to first and the runner on third comes home to score.

I've been told 2 different rulings,
ruling 1 is what i did,
dead ball,batter is out for interference and runner goes back to third.
ruling 2,
live ball. there was no intent on the batter interference so therefore it is a live ball
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 10:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 760
OMG

Interference doesn't have to be intentional.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers.
You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.
~Naguib Mahfouz
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 10:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Send a message via AIM to michael15544 Send a message via Yahoo to michael15544
A Class-A minor league umpire told me that on a thrown ball you have to have intent for it to be interference.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 01:12am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 279
In FED, there is a case play that illustrates this play to a T.

The ruling is that it's interference. It's too late for me to look it up. I'm going to bed.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 760
And I'm telling you that unless you are Dionne Warwick or one of her psychic friends you are wrong to think that way.

Interference does not have to be intentional. Your friend should know better, maybe that is why he never moved up.
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers.
You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.
~Naguib Mahfouz
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 09:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sheffield Lake, Ohio
Posts: 340
He indicated that it was Pro rules. In NFHS, it IS interference, but I am not up to speed on the differences between Pro and NFHS in this area. But, I would have to agree that intent does not come into play in the decision to call interference. I have no rule to cite, however.
__________________
Tony Smerk
OHSAA Certified
Class 1 Official
Sheffield Lake, Ohio
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 09:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
I presented a play in another thread a few months ago that is somewhat similar to this situation. I was told repeatedly that you had to have intent on a discarded bat to call interference. Is that only for interference on a fielder attempting to field a ball or interference on a throw?

I think the confusion can be found in the title of this thread. "Batters Interference." This is not batters interference in any way. If it's interference at all, it's runners interference.


For batters interference you have to have the batter committ an overt act while in the batters box. Runners interference is a different story, but on a discarded bat, I'm still not so sure intent isn't required.

Here's the thread with the play I mentioned.

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/21693


Tim.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 04:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 355
Send a message via AIM to NFump
PBUC 4.12 Batter interferes with catcher's throwback to pitcher:
Paragraphs 3 and 4: If the batter interferes with the catcher's throw to retire a runner by stepping out of the batter's box, interference shall be called on the batter under Official Rule 6.06(c)
However, if the batter is standing in the batter's box and he or his bat is struck by the catcher's throw back to the pitcher(or throw in attempting to retire a runner) and, in the umpire's judgement, there is no intent on the part of the batter to interfere with the throw, consider the ball alive and in play.

PBUC 4.15 Thrown bat interferes with fielder: If a whole bat is thrown into fair territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not. However, if a bat breaks and part of it is in fair territory and is hit by a batted ball or part of it hits a runner or fielder, play shall continue and no interference shall be called.

PBUC 4.18 Thrown ball strikes helmet or bat: If a thrown ball strikes a helmet or bat accidentally (no intent on part of runner to interfere) in fair or foul territory, the ball remains in play the same as if it had not hit the helmet or bat.
If, in the umpire's judgement, there is intent on the part of a base runner to interfere with a thrown ball by dropping his helmet or bat or by throwing either at the ball, then the runner would be out, the ball dead, and runners would return to the last base legally touched.


T'would appear to not be interference according to the PBUC manual(which the Class A umpire was going by). So, evidently(as he was correct), this was not the reason he didn't move up. Could be why someone else didn't though.
__________________
Just where are those dang keys?!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
So, WWTB...

Will your reply simply denigrate the umpire who seemed to have made the correct call? Or will it actually have some rule-based substance to back up your seemingly mistaken assumption?

Based on history, I know where my money lies.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sheffield Lake, Ohio
Posts: 340
Thumbs up Bowing to your wisdom

Based on what I read, there is NO interference in the scenario examined here - under Pro rules. So I accept that and bow to your wisdom here. Did I screw up as well for the NFHS rules or is it still interference on the batter - even though there was no intent?


BTW WWTB, what rule were you reading that made you so sure you were right? I bought into your explanation because you seemed so sure. What did you read that let you interpret that the intent did NOT have to be there?

[Edited by officialtony on Jan 31st, 2006 at 05:12 PM]
__________________
Tony Smerk
OHSAA Certified
Class 1 Official
Sheffield Lake, Ohio
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 355
Send a message via AIM to NFump
Maybe he thought the bat was thrown into fair territory. It's a possibility, left-handed batter throws his bat towards the third base dugout and ball makes contact with said bat over fair territory. Hmmmm.....nah.
__________________
Just where are those dang keys?!
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 05:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Send a message via AIM to michael15544 Send a message via Yahoo to michael15544
thank NFump... you really helped me out on that one.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 06:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 355
Send a message via AIM to NFump
You're welcome.
__________________
Just where are those dang keys?!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 06:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 760
mcrowder - the original post argued that a batter tossed his bat across the throwing area - unlike a couple of members at the end of this thread - I assumed that the batter had to be lefty since the catcher's throw was to third. I would like to know how you judge intent on something like that.

If you hang your hat on the PBUC quote, I would like to know the numbers for tonight's PowerBall lottery. Since you seem to be able to divin the unknown, please share with us how you do that. Is it a natural gift or did you have to go through special training? I'm guessing that it was a gift, because your training has proved to be lacking time and again.

A lefty underhands his bat away after ball four and the catcher throws the ball and hits the bat - are you sure that the catcher didn't intentionally throw the ball into the bat? Of course you are - you're f-ing psychic!
__________________
"You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers.
You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.
~Naguib Mahfouz
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 31, 2006, 06:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Come on, Windy. You kicked this one and now your trying to switch the focus. Both the PBUC and the MLBUM say the exact same thing. No intent, no interference. You don't have to be clairvoyant to judge whether or not there was intent. The batter-runner is given the benefit of the doubt unless you're sure he intended to interfere, not the other way around. It's kind of like being innocent until proven guilty.


Tim.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1