Bowling over the catcher

eastdavis · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 22, 2006, 01:49pm

Brand new here so if this has been addressed recently, sorry.

At what level of baseball or in what circumstance is a runner allowed to bowl over a catcher with the ball? without the ball?

My son is a 13u catcher. Last year in a Triple Crown tournament he was bowled over twice in the same game by the same player while he had the ball and was waiting with the ball to make the tag. Not close to a bang-bang play either time. Fortunately he held on to the ball both times. Unfortunately the runner was congratulated both times by his coach/dad.

U of M Sam · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 22, 2006, 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by eastdavis
Brand new here so if this has been addressed recently, sorry.

At what level of baseball or in what circumstance is a runner allowed to bowl over a catcher with the ball? without the ball?

My son is a 13u catcher. Last year in a Triple Crown tournament he was bowled over twice in the same game by the same player while he had the ball and was waiting with the ball to make the tag. Not close to a bang-bang play either time. Fortunately he held on to the ball both times. Unfortunately the runner was congratulated both times by his coach/dad.

My understanding: The described situations are not acceptable within high school and all levels of youth ball, including upper levels of LL. I have seen a runner called out and ejected from the game after running over a catcher as you describe. Not sure about college level and of course we have seen this type of action in MLB.
BTW: Welcome to the board.

DG · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 22, 2006, 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by eastdavis
At what level of baseball or in what circumstance is a runner allowed to bowl over a catcher with the ball? without the ball?

My son is a 13u catcher. Last year in a Triple Crown tournament he was bowled over twice in the same game by the same player while he had the ball and was waiting with the ball to make the tag. Not close to a bang-bang play either time. Fortunately he held on to the ball both times. Unfortunately the runner was congratulated both times by his coach/dad.

The Triple Crown website I was able to find did not specify all of the rules under which Triple Crown tournaments are played, but the ones that were listed were typical youth rules (ie limits on innings pitched, who can wear metal spikes, etc.). I know of no rules that would allow a non-professional runner to bowl over the catcher in any case. In college, "if the collision by the runner was flagrant, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected." However, if the catcher did not have the ball, the runner would be declared safe on the obstruction, but then ejected for flagrant contact.

In this case (13U) I would eject the player and if the coach/dad makes an a** out of himself after the call I will get him too.

BigUmp56 · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 22, 2006, 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by U of M Sam

My understanding: The described situations are not acceptable within high school and all levels of youth ball, including upper levels of LL. I have seen a runner called out and ejected from the game after running over a catcher as you describe. Not sure about college level and of course we have seen this type of action in MLB.
BTW: Welcome to the board. [/B]

In FED play this should be an ejection if the contact was malicious in nature. Sure sounds like it was both times the runner did this. Even though a runner is ejected for MC the umpire still has to determine if he was safe before the contact was initiated. You don't automatically call the runner out.

3-3-1 Penalty: "The umpire shall eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in the game being forfeited. In (n) {initate malicious contact}, the ejected player is declared out, unless he had already scored.

Tim.

D-Man · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 22, 2006, 10:31pm

Our adult leagues have gone to the NCAA collision rule and the NFHS force play slide rule. Baseball is not haw they put food on their tables.

D

U of M Sam · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 05:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Man
Our adult leagues have gone to the NCAA collision rule and the NFHS force play slide rule. Baseball is not haw they put food on their tables.

D

What is the NFHS force play slide rule?

Mike Walsh · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by U of M Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Man
Our adult leagues have gone to the NCAA collision rule and the NFHS force play slide rule. Baseball is not haw they put food on their tables.

D

What is the NFHS force play slide rule?

The force play slide rule is when a player is forced to vacate his base because the batter has become a runner (a force play). The slide part of the rule says that if the runner slides, he must slide directly into the base or away from the fielder. If he fails to slide legally he is out for interference, and so is the batter-runner.

The runner is never required to slide. The rule only imposes restrictions on how he can slide.

Mike

DG · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:54am

Take a look at Case Book 2.32.2 Situation C: On a force play at the plate if the runner from 3B slides through home plate and makes contact with the catcher on the other side it is FPSR and 2 outs. "A runner is expected to stop short of the back edge home plate." I have not seen this happen, yet.

phillips.alex · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 10:12pm

remember in NFHS rules it is "slide or avoid." You don't have to slide if you can otherwise avoid contact (ie, running around, diving, jumping....)

alex

Rich · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 23, 2006, 10:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by phillips.alex
remember in NFHS rules it is "slide or avoid." You don't have to slide if you can otherwise avoid contact (ie, running around, diving, jumping....)

alex

Diving?

Mike Walsh · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 24, 2006, 12:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by phillips.alex
remember in NFHS rules it is "slide or avoid." You don't have to slide if you can otherwise avoid contact (ie, running around, diving, jumping....)

alex

Diving?

Diving is allowed only if the fielder is lying flat on the ground.

Mike

phillips.alex · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 24, 2006, 03:06am

you hit that one right on the nose, mike!

cowbyfan1 · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 24, 2006, 05:42am

Back to the original question, full season AA Pro ball is, from what I understand, the lowest level of ball that players can take out a catcher waiting with the ball. I have yet to see any league or tourney below that where it is not an out and ejection.

BigUmp56 · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 24, 2006, 06:20am

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Back to the original question, full season AA Pro ball is, from what I understand, the lowest level of ball that players can take out a catcher waiting with the ball. I have yet to see any league or tourney below that where it is not an out and ejection.

You have to first judge whether or not the runner scored before the contact. If you have F2 straddling the plate, for example, and the runner touches the plate before he takes F2 out, then he's ruled safe and ejected. The only way you can call him out for malicious contact after he's scored is for a FPSR violation.

Tim.

cowbyfan1 · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 24, 2006, 06:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by BigUmp56

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
Back to the original question, full season AA Pro ball is, from what I understand, the lowest level of ball that players can take out a catcher waiting with the ball. I have yet to see any league or tourney below that where it is not an out and ejection.

You have to first judge whether or not the runner scored before the contact. If you have F2 straddling the plate, for example, and the runner touches the plate before he takes F2 out, then he's ruled safe and ejected. The only way you can call him out for malicious contact after he's scored is for a FPSR violation.

Tim.

True at some levels.