Mechanics and how to help some guys who obviously need it.

mkuk · #1 (**permalink**) Fri May 12, 2000, 12:30am

I am an ump and a HS varsity coach. We have run into some guys this year that I feel are over their head. They have only been registered with the IHSA for 2 or maybe 3 years or hav ebeen registered for 15-20 years and have never moved up the promotion ladder. One set were completely clueless. On a tag-up play at 3rd, both were within 15 feet of third base. Neither was in any position to watch the tag-up at second, and hence, the runner scored and was the winning run. The play happened with one out, so we should have been out of the inning. Can some one please let me know how to aproach these guys to get them some assistance?

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Fri May 12, 2000, 02:41pm

quote:
Originally posted by mkuk:
I am an ump and a HS varsity coach. We have run into some guys this year that I feel are over their head. They have only been registered with the IHSA for 2 or maybe 3 years or hav ebeen registered for 15-20 years and have never moved up the promotion ladder. One set were completely clueless. On a tag-up play at 3rd, both were within 15 feet of third base. Neither was in any position to watch the tag-up at second, and hence, the runner scored and was the winning run. The play happened with one out, so we should have been out of the inning. Can some one please let me know how to aproach these guys to get them some assistance?

This is in Illinois? Where?

If it's somewhere where the assignments are makde through assigners, encourage your AD to hire an association, instead of an independent.

Either way, complain to the assigner -- and be specific. Depending on where the ball was it is possible that the umps were in (or near) the proper spot.

How does a run score from second on a fly ball? Either the runner is very fast, there was a misplay, or the runner was so far off the base it shouldn't have mattered where the umpires were (or some combination of the above).

John Choiniere · #3 (**permalink**) Fri May 19, 2000, 09:31am

It seems in this situation there were runners on 2nd and 3rd that were tagging up. Both umps were concentraing on runner on 3rd. What is ruling in that situation. Both runners tag up. Runner from 3rd scores. Runner from 2nd leaves early and is ruled out on appeal play. Does run count if appeal play is 3rd out of the inning?

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Fri May 19, 2000, 09:15pm

quote:
Originally posted by John Choiniere:
It seems in this situation there were runners on 2nd and 3rd that were tagging up. Both umps were concentraing on runner on 3rd. What is ruling in that situation. Both runners tag up. Runner from 3rd scores. Runner from 2nd leaves early and is ruled out on appeal play. Does run count if appeal play is 3rd out of the inning?

It's a timing play -- the out is made when the appeal is made (or at the end of playing action under Fed). Assuming the run scored before that, the run counts.

mkuk · #5 (**permalink**) Thu May 25, 2000, 12:30am

quote:
Originally posted by mkuk:
I am an ump and a HS varsity coach. We have run into some guys this year that I feel are over their head. They have only been registered with the IHSA for 2 or maybe 3 years or hav ebeen registered for 15-20 years and have never moved up the promotion ladder. One set were completely clueless. On a tag-up play at 3rd, both were within 15 feet of third base. Neither was in any position to watch the tag-up at second, and hence, the runner scored and was the winning run. The play happened with one out, so we should have been out of the inning. Can some one please let me know how to aproach these guys to get them some assistance?

The umpires were highered by the host school. I know the AD does the highering and is also the head coach. I don't think they are from and association. But they are from the east central part of the state, near the Indiana border.

Gee · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 30, 2000, 04:58pm

quote:
Originally posted by John Choiniere:
It seems in this situation there were runners on 2nd and 3rd that were tagging up. Both umps were concentraing on runner on 3rd. What is ruling in that situation. Both runners tag up. Runner from 3rd scores. Runner from 2nd leaves early and is ruled out on appeal play. Does run count if appeal play is 3rd out of the inning?

Yes, run would still have scored even if the umpires saw R2 leave early and called out on the appeal, providing that R3 scored before the out was called. So I guess both umps wanted to get the only meaningful call right. Chuckle. G.