Courtesy Runners

NealH · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 25, 2001, 11:36am

I had a question from a partner I was working with last night that kinda had me thinking.

Fed rules. Player #5 courtesy runs for the pitcher at the start of the 1st inning and player #6 courtesy runs for the catcher in the same inning. The team bats around and the pitcher gets on base a second time in that inning. May player #6 courtesy run for him even though he ran for the catcher earlier in the inning? That is, is a player who is a courtesy runner for a particular player locked to that player for the whole half inning or can the courtesy runner be any qualified sub?

I told him I thought the players had to run for the same players if they are used in that inning but I couldnt find a reference that said that.

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 25, 2001, 12:28pm

If coaches are going to use courtesy runners, the same runner must run for a particular position. So #6 can only run for the catcher and #5 can only run for the pitcher no matter what inning it is. But if for some reason the coach wants to bring in those runners as pinch runners, they can do that, but that means someone has to replace them as a courtesy runner at the same position.

And I also believe but need to look it up, they cannot be a pinch runner and a courtesy runner in the same inning. But I will have to check that to be sure. Going off of complete memory on that.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 25, 2001, 12:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by NealH
I had a question from a partner I was working with last night that kinda had me thinking.

Fed rules. Player #5 courtesy runs for the pitcher at the start of the 1st inning and player #6 courtesy runs for the catcher in the same inning. The team bats around and the pitcher gets on base a second time in that inning. May player #6 courtesy run for him even though he ran for the catcher earlier in the inning? That is, is a player who is a courtesy runner for a particular player locked to that player for the whole half inning or can the courtesy runner be any qualified sub?

I told him I thought the players had to run for the same players if they are used in that inning but I couldnt find a reference that said that.

Not only can they not run for the other player in that half-inning, they can't run for the other player in the entire game (and they can't participate on offense in any other capacity in that half-inning -- injury and ejection excepted). See CR-1, CR-3 (they're after Rule 10), and Cases CR.1, CR.5, CR.6

Gre144 · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 25, 2001, 06:28pm

Can't the courtesy runner for the pitcher enter as a legal substitute for the catcher in that same half inning? Also, if the courtesy runner for the pitcher runs for the catcher wouldn't you, as an umpire, have to declare him a legal unreported sub or would you eject him and call him out for being an illegal substitute? Fed rules.

Greg

bob jenkins · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 25, 2001, 09:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gre144
Can't the courtesy runner for the pitcher enter as a legal substitute for the catcher in that same half inning? Also, if the courtesy runner for the pitcher runs for the catcher wouldn't you, as an umpire, have to declare him a legal unreported sub or would you eject him and call him out for being an illegal substitute? Fed rules.

Greg

First question: No. A CR cannot participate in any form on offense in that half-inning (with some exceptions for injury or ejection).

Second question: If you catch it before it happens, stop it from happening. If the other team (or you) catch it after you've allowed it, it's an illegal sub. Out and ejection. Violations of the CR rule are one type of illegal sub.

NealH · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 26, 2001, 11:55am

Thanks guys. Thats why I like these forums, it gives me a chance to reassure myself that I am not thinking myself into more trouble, (a common enough occurance).

Gre144 · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 26, 2001, 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
If coaches are going to use courtesy runners, the same runner must run for a particular position. So #6 can only run for the catcher and #5 can only run for the pitcher no matter what inning it is. But if for some reason the coach wants to bring in those runners as pinch runners, they can do that, but that means someone has to replace them as a courtesy runner at the same position.

And I also believe but need to look it up, they cannot be a pinch runner and a courtesy runner in the same inning. But I will have to check that to be sure. Going off of complete memory on that.

So Bob, is Jrutledge wrong? The above is a quote from him.

FED Rules, Please.

Greg.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 26, 2001, 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gre144

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
If coaches are going to use courtesy runners, the same runner must run for a particular position. So #6 can only run for the catcher and #5 can only run for the pitcher no matter what inning it is. But if for some reason the coach wants to bring in those runners as pinch runners, they can do that, but that means someone has to replace them as a courtesy runner at the same position.

And I also believe but need to look it up, they cannot be a pinch runner and a courtesy runner in the same inning. But I will have to check that to be sure. Going off of complete memory on that.

So Bob, is Jrutledge wrong? The above is a quote from him.

FED Rules, Please.

Greg.

THe phrase "the same runner must run for a particular position" is not entirely correct. #6 can run for F2 in the first, then #7 can run for F2 in the third, then #6 can run for F2 again in the fifth (assuming the players are otherwise eligible to be CRs).

But, Jeff explained what he meant in the next part of the paragraph -- and he;s right there.

What part (if not what I explained) do you think is wrong? The rest seems consistent with what I wrote.

BTW, if you are a member of this site, I wrote a piece on the CR -- it may answer some more of your questions.