Full-count

[Rog]

Wow, this thread is absolutely amazing! I'm printing it out and labelling it:
"Plate Umpire Signals & Political Correctness - Course #101"

[Steve M]

Originally posted by GeeBee
I was taught by veteran softball umpire that when a full count exists, close both hands to form a fist, hold them at face level, and announce, "Full count!!" This technique
alleviates the mis-reading of fingers held aloft.

GeeBee,
Your veteran softball ump was not teaching you the standard softball mechanic in this. Show balls with left hand, strikes with right hand and announce "three balls, two strikes" - that's how we do it in ASA, Fed, and NCAA softball - hmmmmmmm just like baseball in this instance.

Steve M

[PAblue87]

The closed fist is a poor mechanic. Show the proper fingers. In my associations signaling, we use a closed fist to show ZERO outs.

[edhern]

Did a Babe Ruth Jr game the other day as a favor to my leagues UIC. I kept signalling either "three and two" or "three balls and two strikes". The coach came up to me between innings and told he has umped and the correct mechanic is banging your two closed fists together saying full count. Let's not go into my response (I was nice). However, I did resist discussing coaching with him when he was forced to finish the game with 8 players and elected to have 3 infielders and 3 outfielders (no third baseman). The sad part was the other team never got players to steal an open third base. Now I know why I usually stick to school and travel games.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by DrC.
I have to agree with GeeBee. Although it is not the "TAUGHT" way of doing it, using either 1 or 2 fist up high
will be appreciated more by an outfielder than 3 fingers on the left and 2 on the right. If you were an outfielder in a night game, do you really think he can distinguish each individual finger. No he can not. A fist can not be mis-understood. I don't think it could be miscontrued as no count since the batter has been up for at least 5 pitches already.
-- Only my 2 cents worth --

When I played outfield in college, I appreciated the umpires that held up two fists for full count for the exact reasons that you gave. Even a high school student should be able to tell the difference between 3-2 and no count. :o) Like you said, at least five pitches worth.

When I went to umpire school, I questioned this insane insistance that 3-2 had to be three fingers on the left hand and two on the right. I argued your position of the hapless outfielder. I got a long speech from the instructor about how ball players were not that smart. After I umpired a while, I realized that it was your umpire partners that were not that smart, not the ballplayers. Realizing that getting along was more important than being right, I always indicate 3-2 with three fingers on the left hand and two on the right.

BTW, I was told that the term "full count" was a carry over from poker where a full house is trips and a pair.

Peter

A very experience umpire just before going to the Olympics asked the clinic what's the count full of? Use the three/two fingers. Also I would like to know what difference does it make to the outfielders what the count is. If the ball is hit to them they catch it. They need to know outs but not the count. I was a centerfielder so I know a little about the position.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Michael Taylor
A very experience umpire just before going to the Olympics asked the clinic what's the count full of? Use the three/two fingers. Also I would like to know what difference does it make to the outfielders what the count is. If the ball is hit to them they catch it. They need to know outs but not the count. I was a centerfielder so I know a little about the position.

It might be important if you have a complex defensive set up. But for most of us that do not do levels that relay every single pitch, what the outfielder thinks is truely irrelavant. If they want to know the count, pay attention. They know if is there is a strike or not by paying attention to the umpire. The count should only be given either when the count is critical (3 balls or 2 strikes in the count) or every three pitches. It is not our job to constantly give a count after every pitch

Just a thought.

Peace

[Rich]

EVERYBODY knows what a full count is.

For someone to argue that a full count really doesn't exist - THAT is stupid.

I don't care what the umpire holds up when there is a 3-2 count. I care more what he calls the 3-2 pitch.

Rich

[JJ]

I hold up three fingers on the left hand, two on the right, and announce, "Three-Two - count's full!".
Guess that touches all the bases...

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by Michael Taylor
I was a centerfielder so I know a little about the position.

An outfielder needs to know when the count is full. The other counts do not matter. My college defense had different coverages with full count and the runners moving. The outfielders needed to be aware of this because of different cutoff positions.

This was back in the late sixties. I rarely see anyone using that kind of defense anymore. Besides, most college fields have electronic scoreboards where the fielders can read the count, assuming that it is correct. Back in my playing days, electronic scoreboards were a rarity in amateur ball.

Peter

[Tim C]

You guys give defensive baseball teams MUCH too much credit.

This has been an intersting thread however, I think Rich Froneheiser answer was, by far, the best of all answers.

S & O

[SamNVa]

I think the term "full count" comes from the fact that the next pitch will terminate the count, unless it is fouled off naturally. Who? Naturally.