Another Shining Example of Umpire Restraint in LL

[ozzy6900]

Gee, we are in America - shouldn't we learn English? And how does not speaking Spanish loose a baseball game? Let's gt real here!

[Carbide Keyman]

Why do our brethren in blue continue to involve themselves in things on or around the ballfield that have no bearing on the reason they are at the field, TO OFFICIATE THE GAME !!!

Aren't we open for enough abuse just doing our job without going and digging in the $h!t for trouble ?

When will some of us learn ?!?


Doug

[DG]

Originally posted by GarthB

Apparently so.

It was covered in depth by a local Spokane TV station last night and it is in this morning's paper.

[/B][/QUOTE]
It was covered in today's paper and on last night's news here in Dixie, also. So it's coast to coast coverage. The link that was attached to the original post was from a Florida site. Hopefully it will become legend so no umpire will be so stupid to pull this again.

[Edited by DG on Jul 30th, 2005 at 09:23 PM]

[UmpJM]

FYI,

Also made the Sports section of the Chicago Tribune this morning.

JM

[BigUmp56]

I wonder if the sensationalism of this story has any direct connection to the fact that Latin/American baseball players are now so prevolant in major league baseball.

I thought back to earlier this month when the allstar homerun derby was held in Detroit. Under the new format 8 countries were represented. 5 of these countries were spanish speaking nations.

There is a HUGE following of spanish speaking fans across the globe in MLB today. What might have been seen as a rather mundane story, will now cause a big enough stir in the Latin/American community that media outlets will profit from this story.

Just an observation.

Tim.

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Yup, this crap never, NEVER happens in a USSSSSSSSSA game or in another youth context. Newsworthy problems only happen in Little League.

And is this really that big of a deal?

I don't know how newsworthy it is, but obviously the entire national mainstream media has jumped on it. If they think they can get a racist slant going, the mainstream media will report the facts and see if it takes off. Sells a lot of papers, for whatever reason.

But Rich, the point of your post is dead on accurate. LL (R) has developed a lot of success over the years with it's program, and the TV coverage of the 12 yo tourney puts a huge target on their back. The organization takes a lot of abuse from people who don't know the difference between LL Baseball Inc., PONY, Dixie Youth, AAU, Dizzy Dean, USSSA, IBC, American Legion, Local Community Rec Dept. etc. All of these organizations have their good points. They also all have bad points. They all have good umpires, and they all have really really crappy umpires. Same goes with coaches, players and parents. So the guys who bash LL without specific instances they can attribute to the actual organization, are simply bashing rec ball in general, but lump it all in to LL Inc. It's not always entirely accurate and hurts their credibility.

That being said, the guys who bash LL Inc. because of something factual that happened to them personally, or to someone they know, have every right to single out the organization with their opinions. They are speaking from experience. Tee has actually given specific examples in the past of issues he personally had with the organization. Those should be told, if he feels it necessary, and he maintains credibility. He dislikes the organization because of the reasons he has posted or published in the past that are most likely factual. He doesn't, in my opinion, bash LL Inc. because it is the what the masses think rec ball is. Most other bashers tend to fall in the second category. They bashing rec ball, but calling it LL.

All I'm saying is when speaking of youth ball in general, it is more accurate and gives more credibility if talking about a specific league, identify it. If it is just rec ball in general, don't call it LL, or PONY, or any of the others unless you are sure that is the organization.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by TBBlue
That being said, the guys who bash LL Inc. because of something factual that happened to them personally, or to someone they know, have every right to single out the organization with their opinions. They are speaking from experience. Tee has actually given specific examples in the past of issues he personally had with the organization. Those should be told, if he feels it necessary, and he maintains credibility. He dislikes the organization because of the reasons he has posted or published in the past that are most likely factual. He doesn't, in my opinion, bash LL Inc. because it is the what the masses think rec ball is. Most other bashers tend to fall in the second category. They bashing rec ball, but calling it LL.

I've been reading and corresponding with Tee for years, and I don't recall his ever providing a list of specific incidents he personally experienced with Little League, which left him with the disdain he holds for the organization. I have always understood his dislike for "youth baseball" in general to be based in his belief that baseball is NOT a "kid's game," it is in fact a game invented by and for adults.

My own pet theory, not about Tee specifically but about LL-bashers in general, is they must have had a traumatic experience with Little League when they were 12.

[scottyman51]

Thats like 2 towns over from me. It's all over the news here. Kids should be able to speak any language,sure they should at least be able to understand it;however not everyone can. As an umpire i like to know whats going on,and being said,but if the kid can't speak english then you have to understand. Ump was way out of line.

[GarthB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Hensley

I've been reading and corresponding with Tee for years, and I don't recall his ever providing a list of specific incidents he personally experienced with Little League, which left him with the disdain he holds for the organization. I have always understood his dislike for "youth baseball" in general to be based in his belief that baseball is NOT a "kid's game," it is in fact a game invented by and for adults.

My own pet theory, not about Tee specifically but about LL-bashers in general, is they must have had a traumatic experience with Little League when they were 12.

As a part-time "LL Basher", I can tell you that your one size fits all theory doesn't fit all. I was lucky enough to be raised in a small upstate New York town that didn't have LL or organized youth ball. We played "sand lot" ball during the summer and school ball during the spring upon reaching junior high.

During the summer we would gather at Jim "Mouse" Knauss' house and wait unitl enough kids showed up to form two teams of at least 6 players per team. Then we walked to the corner lot at Ontario Street and Orchard Park Street, across from the P&C grocery store and the GLF farm supply, tossed the ball around for a few minutes, chose up sides and started to play. No parents, no coaches, no fans. Just kids playing baseball and having the time of our lives.

We'd break for lunch and get back together and play until dinner, then come back and play until the street lights came on, the universal signal to head home. I remember riding my bike with my glove dangling off the left handle bar and my bat across the handle bars held in place precariously by my thumbs.

How did we learn fundamentals? In the back yard with Dad, or watching the big kids practice at the high school. We knew the lineups of the Yankees, Dodgers and Giants and would assume the persona of one of them. When I pitched, I was Whitey Ford (as were most left handers), when I played first I was Gil Hodges, even though he was a "righty".

We didn't have uniforms, but we knew who was on which side. There were no ejections, no swearing, no screaming, no guilt laden lectures. Oh, yeah, I already mentioned that there were no coaches and no parents, didn't I?

Bottom line, we had fun, we learned about baseball and we played and played and played baseball. A couple of us played in high school and even college, so it didn't seem to hurt us to not have the "advantages" of Little League.

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Bottom line, we had fun, we learned about baseball and we played and played and played baseball. A couple of us played in high school and even college, so it didn't seem to hurt us to not have the "advantages" of Little League.

In my neighborhood, we had an elaborately built "league" of wiffle-ball teams, and Ben Williams' backyard provided us the perfect wiffleball field. The clothesline pole was first base, the base of the slide on the swingset was 2nd base, and the middle pole on the privacy fence was third base. A ball hit over Ben's fence that went in the alley was an out; to get a homerun, you had to hit it over Ben's fence, the alley, AND the next-door neighbor's fence. And, if you hit a homerun, you had to retrieve the ball yourself, and incur the risk of being eaten alive by the neighbor's German Shepherd.

Like you, we played those wiffleball games morning, noon and night until it was too dark to see, with one exception. We took timeout to ride our bikes to Little League practice (where, coincidentally enough, Ben's dad was our coach) and we had family and neighborhood outings twice a week on Little League game days, down at Rick Oden park right next to Duck Creek. I don't remember the outcome of any single LL game I played, but I remember the post-game trips down Garland Road to the local Baskin-Robbins. Nothing like a double-dip cone of Rocky Road on a balmy summer evening to reward (or console) yourself for whatever just happened on the Little League field.

So, it is possible to have your sandlot games and more formally organized Little League (or whatever brand of youth ball is popular in any given area), both.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by GarthB

I was lucky enough to be raised in a small upstate New York town that didn't have LL or organized youth ball. We played "sand lot" ball during the summer and school ball during the spring upon reaching junior high.

No parents, no coaches, no fans. Just kids playing baseball and having the time of our lives.

Garth you touched on what's IMO the problem with Youth Sports in General - You do not see Pick-up Games anymore. If there isn't a scheduled practice or Game, then for the most part kids do not play.

Baseball is NOT the Sport of choice anymore. I do not know about your area, but the Sport that has taken off in my area "like Wildfire" is LaCross. LaCross has taken many a good athlete not only from baseball but from football as well.

IMO, there is simply TOO MUCH baseball year around. In addition to playing sandlot, we played ALL sports. There was no FALL baseball because we were getting ready for football/basketball season. There are teams today that play almost a MLB type schedule meaning some 100 games year-round.

As far as LL or any other "youth organization" goes it is only as good as the individuals who run it. You can have a great Boy/Girl Scout experience or not depending upon whom the troop leader is, etc.

Also, let's face it for the most part "youth sports" is nothing more than a baby-sitting service so that Mom/Dad can have aday to themselves while LJ is at the Field all day.

Pete Booth

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

I've been reading and corresponding with Tee for years, and I don't recall his ever providing a list of specific incidents he personally experienced with Little League, which left him with the disdain he holds for the organization. I have always understood his dislike for "youth baseball" in general to be based in his belief that baseball is NOT a "kid's game," it is in fact a game invented by and for adults.

My own pet theory, not about Tee specifically but about LL-bashers in general, is they must have had a traumatic experience with Little League when they were 12.

I may be wrong, just going from memory though, but Tee posted briefly at some point on a run-in (probably via email) with Andy Konyer about something he was inquiring about, or challenging Andy on. As a result, he seems to disdain that particular organization, which is his perogotive.

My only point was to lump all youth ball as LL is not an accurate statement. And I believe Pete** summed up what I was trying to say best, in that the local organization of whatever group is only as good as the people running it. A poorly run local branch reflects horribly on the national organization within that particular community.

**Edited to give Pete credit for his post instead of someone else

[DG]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

As a part-time "LL Basher", I can tell you that your one size fits all theory doesn't fit all. I was lucky enough to be raised in a small upstate New York town that didn't have LL or organized youth ball. We played "sand lot" ball during the summer and school ball during the spring upon reaching junior high.

During the summer we would gather at Jim "Mouse" Knauss' house and wait unitl enough kids showed up to form two teams of at least 6 players per team. Then we walked to the corner lot at Ontario Street and Orchard Park Street, across from the P&C grocery store and the GLF farm supply, tossed the ball around for a few minutes, chose up sides and started to play. No parents, no coaches, no fans. Just kids playing baseball and having the time of our lives.

We'd break for lunch and get back together and play until dinner, then come back and play until the street lights came on, the universal signal to head home. I remember riding my bike with my glove dangling off the left handle bar and my bat across the handle bars held in place precariously by my thumbs.

How did we learn fundamentals? In the back yard with Dad, or watching the big kids practice at the high school. We knew the lineups of the Yankees, Dodgers and Giants and would assume the persona of one of them. When I pitched, I was Whitey Ford (as were most left handers), when I played first I was Gil Hodges, even though he was a "righty".

We didn't have uniforms, but we knew who was on which side. There were no ejections, no swearing, no screaming, no guilt laden lectures. Oh, yeah, I already mentioned that there were no coaches and no parents, didn't I?

Bottom line, we had fun, we learned about baseball and we played and played and played baseball. A couple of us played in high school and even college, so it didn't seem to hurt us to not have the "advantages" of Little League.

I remember playing pickup games barefoot, in fields that had sandspurs in spots, with one bat and a baseball that was taped up with electrical tape. Pickup games were spontaneous so everyone might not be equipped to play but we did. Some of the players had gloves, but most did not. But, we also played in local leagues with uniforms and regular baseballs, and fans that did not get out of hand. We had all stars at the end and the ones that made it went on to play more and the others went to the local swimming hole. And there were no street lights to play under around here.

[Diamondgal]

The first time I watched the movie "The Sandlot" I yearned for those days gone by. I was then saddened by the reality that my own kids exist in an era where they don't have those same neat experiences.

[DG]

And most of the time when parents complained my practices were too hard I would tell them I used to ride a bicycle three miles to practice, either with a friend on the handlebars, or I was on the handlebars with a friend pedaling. Then practice and ride back. Then Dad might ask me to cut the grass, and then I would spend time before dark throwing a baseball, or a hard rubber ball about the same size as a baseball, against the 2 feet of brick above the foundation, just before the asphalt shingles, getting hundreds of ground balls to field. And if I missed and broke a shingle Dad didn't say a word. Most of my off the field practice time was on ground balls. I can not imagine how much time I would have spent if I only knew about tees and nets back then.