Another Shining Example of Umpire Restraint in LL

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

http://www.wftv.com/irresistible/4785331/detail.html

here we go again......

[Rich]

Originally posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE
http://www.wftv.com/irresistible/4785331/detail.html

here we go again......

Yup, this crap never, NEVER happens in a USSSSSSSSSA game or in another youth context. Newsworthy problems only happen in Little League.

And is this really that big of a deal?

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Yup, this crap never, NEVER happens in a USSSSSSSSSA game or in another youth context. Newsworthy problems only happen in Little League.

And is this really that big of a deal?

Yes Rich, this is a big deal. This could be a potential lawsuit for racial discrimination. Discrimination is based on race, creed, sex, ethnicity, and national origin. I could see a lawyer filing a lawsuit based on a couple of these. There have already been successful lawsuits regarding employers banning Spanish in the workplace where language was not deemed a critical element of safety. This umpire would have no leg to stand on should he be sued and existing suits used as a precedence. Likewise, Little League could be held accountable for not stepping in and rectifying the situation.

[LMan]

well, as far as 'illegal things' being possibly spoken in another language, I have a grain of sympathy for the umpire in that if the coaches were to give instructions like, "bean this guy" or "take him out" or whatever, and that's what occurred, those are strong indicators of malicious intent, which obviously bears on ejections. How can the umpire judge that if he doesnt speak the language?

All I know is, if I gotta be bilingual to call games, my game fee just tripled

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle

Yes Rich, this is a big deal. This could be a potential lawsuit for racial discrimination. Discrimination is based on race, creed, sex, ethnicity, and national origin. I could see a lawyer filing a lawsuit based on a couple of these. There have already been successful lawsuits regarding employers banning Spanish in the workplace where language was not deemed a critical element of safety. This umpire would have no leg to stand on should he be sued and existing suits used as a precedence. Likewise, Little League could be held accountable for not stepping in and rectifying the situation.

As the article points out in a quote by the Little League spokesman, if the aggrieved coach had lodged a protest in accordance with the tournament rules, the umpire error would have been corrected. Instead, he "left the game in protest."

Is Little League at fault for not publishing their tournament rules in Espanol?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle

Yes Rich, this is a big deal. This could be a potential lawsuit for racial discrimination. Discrimination is based on race, creed, sex, ethnicity, and national origin. I could see a lawyer filing a lawsuit based on a couple of these. There have already been successful lawsuits regarding employers banning Spanish in the workplace where language was not deemed a critical element of safety. This umpire would have no leg to stand on should he be sued and existing suits used as a precedence. Likewise, Little League could be held accountable for not stepping in and rectifying the situation.

Racial discrimination? Next you'll tell me that Little League is fostering a hostile environment by not providing them with bilingual umpires. Or rulebooks in Spanish.

When the coach communicates with the umpire or makes substitutions, do we need to provide an interpreter? In the United States?

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Racial discrimination? Next you'll tell me that Little League is fostering a hostile environment by not providing them with bilingual umpires. Or rulebooks in Spanish.

When the coach communicates with the umpire or makes substitutions, do we need to provide an interpreter? In the United States?

You have cleverly changed the subject and introduced a red herring. The discussion involved on field communications between members of the same team. Umpire to coach communications are a separate issue. Likewise, league administration to team communications are a separate issue. (You raised that one with bilingual rulebooks.)

Stick to the subject. Where in the rules does the umpire gain the right to eavesdrop on the communications between coach and player or player and player? Be specific. Does this right to eavesdrop contribute in a meaningful way to game administration?

Those are the questions that will be asked in a court of law? I don't think that preventing ball balls will be an answer on which the judge will look favorably.

The answers, by the way, are no and no. The counsel would use the example of American umpires in Japanese leagues as proof . The umpires speak almost no Japanese and the Japanese speak almost no English, yet the games are successfully umpired.

[DG]

What are hand signals? Another language your team knows and the other team is not supposed to know. Hand signals could also be used to instruct players to take illegal actions. This umpire needs diversity training.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by DG
What are hand signals? Another language your team knows and the other team is not supposed to know. Hand signals could also be used to instruct players to take illegal actions. This umpire needs diversity training.

I agree with this view, it is no different than signs from the coaches box. I could give a bean sign and noone would know the difference other than my team.

Sign Language is considered a foriegn language, it would qualify as such at a university that required a foreign language for you to complete a major.

[cbfoulds]

Yeah, Rich, it's unlawful discrimination.
It could make a lawsuit, but I doubt it: kinda hard to make damages, although an injunction would be a possibility.
The bit about rule books in Spanish [ or Farsi, or Urdu or ...] is a red herring, as is the other guy's bit about "how can I figger out if the action was malicious if I can't understand what they're saying?".

Bottom line: no umpire, anywhere, has any right or authority to demand that participants stick to english on the field. Guys who do this are OOO yahoos at best, and racist bigots at worst. The TD was an idiot not to squelch this when they wenty to him/her.

'Course the Coach is a bigger idiot for claiming that this ruling "cost them the game".

You WERE right though, that the LL angle is pure coincidence: I've had to deal with this same stupidity in my HS/BRBB/Legion association.

[Rich]

Originally posted by cbfoulds
Yeah, Rich, it's unlawful discrimination.
It could make a lawsuit, but I doubt it: kinda hard to make damages, although an injunction would be a possibility.
The bit about rule books in Spanish [ or Farsi, or Urdu or ...] is a red herring, as is the other guy's bit about "how can I figger out if the action was malicious if I can't understand what they're saying?".

Bottom line: no umpire, anywhere, has any right or authority to demand that participants stick to english on the field. Guys who do this are OOO yahoos at best, and racist bigots at worst. The TD was an idiot not to squelch this when they wenty to him/her.

'Course the Coach is a bigger idiot for claiming that this ruling "cost them the game".

You WERE right though, that the LL angle is pure coincidence: I've had to deal with this same stupidity in my HS/BRBB/Legion association.

Racist bigots? This game WAS played in Massachusetts, right?

Fine, I'll cede that this was against the law. So is speeding and running through a red light.

I'll agree that this was an OOO umpire. I would not (and have ont in the past) said anything. But is this national freaking news?

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Racist bigots? This game WAS played in Massachusetts, right?

Fine, I'll cede that this was against the law. So is speeding and running through a red light.

I'll agree that this was an OOO umpire. I would not (and have ont in the past) said anything. But is this national freaking news?

Apparently so.

It was covered in depth by a local Spokane TV station last night and it is in this morning's paper.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Racist bigots? This game WAS played in Massachusetts, right?

It's a common misconception that racism only exists in Dixie. Massachusetts is the home to South Boston. Remember South Boston.

BTW, what happened to your signature block? I liked it. I noticed that GarthB still has his.

[bbump82]

Well, speaking from experience with this kind of thing.
I agree that you can't specify what language is spoken on the field, but if the one team that speaks another language knows that next to no one will understand them, they will feel free to talk about what they intend to do. I once had the pleasure of working a four man crew for a 17-18 state final here in FL. One team was from Dade county, and the other was from ST. Lucie county (a little north of Dade).
Without implying any rasism, The Dade team was all hispanic, the other a mix of white & black (found out later, that no one on this team spoke spanish). No one on the crew spoke spanish, Dade getting hammered, guys are getting rowdy, things being yelled all over the field.

Long story short, ended up with 2 coached & 2 players EJ'd from the Dade team, cops called to the field because the EJ'd coaches & players started to get into it with the fans of the other team. I honestly believe that there was malicous play openly being discussed, taunting and other things being said that the crew didn't understand. If we had, I'm sure that there would have been more visits to the parking lot.

[jumpmaster]

Think about the sitch like this...

You are a VOLUNTEER umpire who is calling a game between two very competative teams. One coach starts directing things using words you can't understand. You think that coaches are rats and therefore this one is up to no good. You aren't sure if he has done anything wrong, after all it's not in the rule book. You ask the TD if it's ok. TD says no, so you issue a ruling.

To me it looks like the umpire asked the TD if this was permissable and the TD said no. Now the umpire, who is a volunteer, is publicly flogged while the TD hides in the shadows. Seems to me like the TD should be the one answering questions, not the umpire.

As much as I detest LL umpires and their shenanigans, they do play a role in their organizations and are needed for kids to enjoy the game.