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Wed Apr 11, 2001, 07:54pm
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Re: Re: I've never tossed a manager.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ump24
Quote:
"I see!", said the blind carpenter, as he picked up his hammer and saw. If the manager is getting paid ... it's a different game. I have never worked where there was a paid manager. I wonder why it has to be that way. mick 
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Wed Apr 11, 2001, 08:03pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Rut, I only discuss calmly. I never raise my voice. I rarely get in an argument, cuz I'm always right... and I can live with that whether "they" can , or not. mick
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 11:43am
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What about umpires who wear the "hockey style" mask? I've played goal before with that style mask, it's difficult to be understood from.
When do you take that off or would you? Just throwing that out, I wore that style once having borrowed it from a partner, hated it and regular mask. (+POS SUL)
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 12:07pm
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Leave it on
If you leave your mask on during an argument (not a discussion that started and appears calm) the player looks the agressor. You look as if you are ready to go back to work and he is holding up the game. If you take it off, you appear to be on the aggressive. You took an action to continue the argument and demonstrated that to everyone in the yard. You are no on the aggressive.
Leave it on.
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Tony Carilli
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 01:18pm
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Re: Leave it on
Quote:
In today's baseball, it is of utmost importance that we strive to attain body language which is completely and utterly non-confrontational. Anything which gives the appearance of aggression should be avoided. Removing the mask mid-argument is an example of aggressive body language. The juxtaposition of a calm, cool, and collected umpire listening to the rants and raves of an angry coach gives us great power. Either the coach will realize he is the only one acting like a fool and calm down, or his support will crumble when he is finally removed from the game. Anything we do which even gives a hint of aggression, like removing the mask mid-argument, moving toward a player, coach, or bench, or raising our voice will simply give fuel to fires of the supporters of the offender. Once the offender has been ejected, we need peace for the duration of the game. We are more likely to get that if only the initial offender looks utterly guilty. If we show even a hint of guilt, the problems of the day will have only just begun.
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Jim Porter
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 02:15pm
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I guess what I'd say is . . .
I can't remember every REALLY arguing with my mask ON.
An umpire knows WHEN to take that cage off . . . I mean it would be REALLY rare to dump someone without first taking off your mask. Now maybe I am just too Politically insensitive but . . . IF I was headed to the bench to quiet it down (mask off) If I had a hitter RETURN to the dish to continue an argument about a strike call (mask off) If I had a base coach head down the line to ask a question (mask on) While I agree with some of what Jim Porter has said I think in "Big Boy Ball" you sometimes need to clearly establish that you are in charge (some could say, "Intimidate").
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 03:00pm
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Re: I guess what I'd say is . . .
Quote:
I do work "Big Boy Ball," and my advice is for exactly that. The old school where you were taught has gone the way of the dinosaurs. Intimidation is discouraged now. Welcome to the New Millenium. There is no reason for an umpire to establish he is in charge. He is already in charge. Any "establishing" which needs to be done is now considered to be a weak approach. No need to establish something that is already given to you by the rules and by practice, custom, and tradition. If you need to establish that you are in charge, then you are admitting that, at some point, you weren't in charge. That kind of loss of control makes for a lowered rating in today's baseball. Sorry, but that old school approach is no longer recommended by any clinician worth his salt. [Edited by Jim Porter on Apr 12th, 2001 at 03:02 PM]
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Jim Porter
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Thu Apr 12, 2001, 08:06pm
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There is a middle ground
I don't think it is necessary to be intimidating. I don't ever argue, since it is an exercise in futility.
I sometimes think it is polite to remove your mask when talking to a manager or coach. Same with sunglasses. Then, removing the mask is a sign of respect. But there are times when you need to make a point. If the coach in the third base box is chipping at your strike zone, nothing makes the point of how the coach is treading on thin ice BETTER than removing the mask, taking a step or two towards third, and quietly yet forcefully stopping the chipping. Removing the mask doesn't always have to signify something, either. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Rich
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Fri Apr 13, 2001, 08:19am
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Sung to the tune: "Clap On"
You guys just kill me. Now we have an extremely overrated discussion which appears to be crumbling and taking a personal vent. We even have old school versus new school. Amazing that umpires can't even agree whether to keep their masks on or take them off during an "argument." I sit here imagining all the guys on this list sitting there in front of their computers with their masks on just so they can argue with another internet umpire.
Mask on... (clap, clap) Mask off... (clap, clap) Mask on, mask off... (pause) Mask on! (clap, clap)
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Fri Apr 13, 2001, 09:01am
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Well,
Jim . . . let's put it this way:
I work my way (retired) and you work yours. No one has ever confused me with someone who is politically correct. Jim, in the dog-eat-dog world of upper end baseball, an umpire constantly is being tested. You re-establish your control over and over. I will (would, I keep forgetting I am retired) keep taking my mask off ANYTIME I feel it is necessary. If you feel differently fine . . . that is why you umpire one way and others umpire different ways. No need to nuke out at me Jim . . . I am still one of your admirers.
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Fri Apr 13, 2001, 11:31am
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Re: Sung to the tune:
Quote:
P-Sz
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Fri Apr 13, 2001, 01:05pm
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Re: Well,
Tee,
I didn't mean to sound like I was "nuking out" at you. I was just trying to make my point as clearly as possible. My apologies if you were offended. Umpyre007, I felt this thread became a much deeper discussion than a "mask on, mask off" debate. There's much value in the opinions expressed.
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Jim Porter
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Fri Apr 13, 2001, 08:04pm
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Re: Re: Well,
Quote:
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Sat Apr 14, 2001, 01:35am
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Mask on or off
I work little guy ball. When do I remove my mask?
Chipping from the dugout or coaches box: 1st time, look over to acknowledge the intelligent conversation; 2nd, look over, "coach I can hear you"; 3rd time, Whip off mask, point at dugout, utter, rather firmly, "THAT'S ENOUGH"!! EJ is fast approaching. Next: Coach comes out to talk to me: Gently remove mask, if wearing re-entry shields (shades), gently remove them. Direct eye contact is good in a calm or rather spirited discussion. I don't wear shades, I need all the light I can get. Works for me. Dave Davies
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I'll go to your school.
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