Sox/Devil Rays on 7/18 - Page 2

rickfriedmann · #16 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 19, 2005, 01:21pm

If you have to be an MLB umpire to critique their work, then under that same thinking you cannot umpire a high school baseball game unless you play high school baseball. Simply idiotic comment.

jicecone · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 19, 2005, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rickfriedmann
If you have to be an MLB umpire to critique their work, then under that same thinking you cannot umpire a high school baseball game unless you play high school baseball. Simply idiotic comment.

Wow, you really set me straight. I never playeded HS basaball eider.

Thank you for those words of wisdom.

dudeinblue · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 19, 2005, 02:09pm

It looked to me as the the 1st base umpire was blocked and could not see if Schill's foot hit the bag. Also, he was behind first base. It was a banger, he called him safe. Maybe it was one of those times when, as we all have done, you call a banger one way to quickly discover 2 seconds later that you made the wrong call after replaying it in your head. I don't know about you fellas, but after this has happened and a coach asked for an appeal, I explain to my partner how I made the wrong call and express my apologies b/c he will be taking the heat, but I have to reverse the call. Due to the angle of the 1st base umpire, the home plate umpire could see the base better and if Schill's foot touched it or not. A meeting, the correct thing to do in this situation, was called and the correct call was made. Good work, and any time there is a reversal of a call the opposite team is going to get pissed. Even if it was blatantly obvious.

GarthB · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 02:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Well, I saw the replay over and over, and depending on which angle you see the play at, the outcome is different. The only person that had a good look at the play was U1 (DeMuth). No one, and I mean NO ONE had a beter look at the play on that field last night.

This is one of those plays that the calling official earns his money - it's a live or die play! This is not the kind of play that can be discussed because no other umpire was in position to see the play. Even though Diaz was chasing the play, he did not have the a better view.

So instead of letting the call be what it is, the umpires get together and the call gets reversed. Now Pinella comes out and all I could say was that he was gone the minute he came out on the field. There was no way he was going to accept this bull$hit reversal of a call.

Look, if Diaz was even close to where DeMuth was, I could see having a meeting. But as I said before, this is that rare call that you have to live or die with. It's the kind of call that you have to have the balls to make and once you do you have to stand with it. In my opinion, DeMuth needs to check his crotch to see if he is a gelding or not. "I just wanted to get the call right" is just a bull$hit way of saying "I made a call but I don't want to piss anyone off so I want to have everyone's opinion so I don't take the heat myself."!

I don't agree with making a call then meeting then making another call. Make the damn call right to begin with!

And how many MLB games have you done this year OZ?

Does a music critic have to write a symphony before critiquing an orchestra's performance? Does a drama critic have to produce a broadway production before reviewing a play? Does a sommelier have to stomp grapes before judging and recommending a pinot noir?

Why then would working MLB games be a prerequisited to critiquing an umpires mechanics?

NSump · #20 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 04:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900

If I need help with a call, I go for it BEFORE I make the call as we were trained to do eons ago. If there is a possible rule mis-application then there should be a meeting. But I'm sorry, a bang-bang play should get one call - not a call, then a meeting, then another call. I'm for getting the call right, but that is my job, not a committee's.

So, I'm sure that most of you don't agree with this because our society demands investigations and verifications and political correctness. Well, this is baseball, not Watergate. I say save the meetings for the politicians. I'll just concentrate on the play and live with my call.... just as I am doing right now.

[/B]

Well Ozzy, I agree 100%.

What next? Do we get help on the banger that we just blow? It happens. Bad calls are part of the game. So the SS boots a ground ball. Do we stop the game and let him try to field it again to "get it right"?

jicecone · #21 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 08:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Well, I saw the replay over and over, and depending on which angle you see the play at, the outcome is different. The only person that had a good look at the play was U1 (DeMuth). No one, and I mean NO ONE had a beter look at the play on that field last night.

This is one of those plays that the calling official earns his money - it's a live or die play! This is not the kind of play that can be discussed because no other umpire was in position to see the play. Even though Diaz was chasing the play, he did not have the a better view.

So instead of letting the call be what it is, the umpires get together and the call gets reversed. Now Pinella comes out and all I could say was that he was gone the minute he came out on the field. There was no way he was going to accept this bull$hit reversal of a call.

Look, if Diaz was even close to where DeMuth was, I could see having a meeting. But as I said before, this is that rare call that you have to live or die with. It's the kind of call that you have to have the balls to make and once you do you have to stand with it. In my opinion, DeMuth needs to check his crotch to see if he is a gelding or not. "I just wanted to get the call right" is just a bull$hit way of saying "I made a call but I don't want to piss anyone off so I want to have everyone's opinion so I don't take the heat myself."!

I don't agree with making a call then meeting then making another call. Make the damn call right to begin with!

And how many MLB games have you done this year OZ?

Does a music critic have to write a symphony before critiquing an orchestra's performance? Does a drama critic have to produce a broadway production before reviewing a play? Does a sommelier have to stomp grapes before judging and recommending a pinot noir?

Why then would working MLB games be a prerequisited to critiquing an umpires mechanics?

And who said it was? Even though it didn't come across this way, my point was, even though Ozz does'nt agree with the way MLB is handling these situations now, (and that's his perogative), it's still going to happen. And it is still going to have an influence on mechanics used in other leagues.

Also, if he by chance does get called for a MLB game, I'm sure he will do it their way too.

Sal Giaco · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Well, as far as I could see, DeMuth must have felt pressure from the defense and on a 4 man crew, you can go into foul ground without a problem.

What pressure are you talking about - the ball was NOT hit deep in the hole between the second and first baseman. Regardless, since when does pressure require the first base umpire to swing ALL THE WAY TO THE COACH'S BOX in foul territory.

With all due respect OZ, the positioning on this play was bad - PERIOD.

ozzy6900 · #23 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by Sal Giaco

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Well, as far as I could see, DeMuth must have felt pressure from the defense and on a 4 man crew, you can go into foul ground without a problem.

What pressure are you talking about - the ball was NOT hit deep in the hole between the second and first baseman. Regardless, since when does pressure require the first base umpire to swing ALL THE WAY TO THE COACH'S BOX in foul territory.

With all due respect OZ, the positioning on this play was bad - PERIOD.

Well, seeing as how we all saw this play 1000 times and DeMuth got to do it ONCE, I'm not going to argue this point.

ozzy6900 · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 11:07am

I can see that many of you out there really like the "meeting to get it right" BS, so here are some ideas for you all to chew on:

1. When in the B or C position, the BU can over-rule the decision of the PU's call of ball or strike (after meeting with him, of course).

2. All calls on the baseball field requiring any decision should be discussed with all the officials before renderng a call. And if the coaches do not agree, another meeting should take place until a decision is made that everyone (including the fans ) can live with!

Sal Giaco · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 11:41am

[B]

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Well, seeing as how we all saw this play 1000 times and DeMuth got to do it ONCE, I'm not going to argue this point.

OZ,
The play was a wacker and a very difficult call to say the least. The point of this discussion is POSITIONING - not whether he got the call right or wrong.

Once again, if he positions himself CORRECTLY, we probably would not be having this conversation because he would have NOT needed to go for help on the play.

It has nothing to do with how many times we saw the play, or the slow motion, or hind sight or anything else. Bottom line, good positioning results in good angles... or in this case, bad positioning results in bad angles which = cluster fu*K

Macaroo · #26 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 01:30am

I'm with Oz. This "meeting to get it right" AFTER a call has been made is BS.

cowbyfan1 · #27 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 01:50am

I don't agree. The official got caught out of position and had a bad angle. He got help and they got it right. I agree if he stays put on the line or a step fair, where we are taught to be, he see it and then there is no need as he would have had the angle. I still cannot understand why he moved where he did. Maybe something new for 4 man. That spot it just a bad place to be period. Where was that umpire (his name is escaping me right now) standing in the Cards/Royals World Series? Oh yeah, same spot.

I guess the meetings to rule one way or the other on HR/foul ball is not a good thing either. How long has that been going on?

jicecone · #28 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 07:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by Macaroo
I'm with Oz. This "meeting to get it right" AFTER a call has been made is BS.

Hey, those days of officials being "God" and whatever they say is "Gospel", .....ARE OVER WITH.

Deal with it, because it sticks out like a sore thumb that officials that aren't interested in getting the calls as correct as possible have an ego/attitude problem. And thats personal. They can't accept the fact that someone is questioning their authority, or that they just may be wrong.

This has nothing to do with tradition, nor was it ever ectched in stone in the rules either. The Leagues are hiring officials that can deal with it, and the game is getting better because of it.

Deal with it or don't let the door hit you in the A## on the way out. Because truthfully, there are enough attitudes to deal with already on the field. Having a partner with one, just ruins it for the rest of us.

LMan · #29 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 08:09am

*sends note to jicecone recommending decaf*

jicecone · #30 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 08:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by LMan
*sends note to jicecone recommending decaf*

Hey I got to get 1000 on this forum, one way or another.