|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 07:49am
|
|||
|
|||
|
coach - the rule DOES say electronic. Nice attempted stretch though.
Original Poster - it's not illegal in the dugout (and it's only ticky-tack illegal in the box). And I'd suggest that the next time a board member approaches you during a game, you kindly remind him that you have a game to coach and that he has no authority during a game. His inventing of rules to you was highly inappropriate, and even if he was correct (which he wasn't), he had absolutely no business communicating rules or procedures to you (or issuing threats or warnings about ejections to you) during a game. This board members needs to be reported to his board. 
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 08:09am
|
|||
|
|||
|
twest,
there is no national USSSA rule that prohibits an indicator/clicker/thingy... OSSAA is the Oklahoma organization that oversees HS athletics. It is a member of the National Federation of State High School Associations. Their rulebook is commonly referred to as "FED" Major League rules are officially called the Official Rules of Baseball or OBR. USSSA uses OBR as it's base set of rules. However, they have adopted some of the FED rules specific to safety. In addition, USSSA has published national rules on it's website, http://www.usssabaseball.com. My suggestion, FWIW, chalk this one up to stupid board members. Always ask the tournament director about any tournament rules. Come play ball in Northwest Arkansas. You get a quality tournament and umpires that can work. [Edited by jumpmaster on Jun 7th, 2005 at 09:15 AM]
__________________
Alan Roper Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 08:45am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: The Rest of the Story
Quote:
There is a pi$$ing contest here that you have not told us about. I would bet money that your husband played as idiotic a role in this contest as the board member that came over and got on a high horse about indicators. Please enlighten us on the instigating role that your husband played to get this farce rolling. I'll bet he was just as much of an idiot as the board member who was up in arms about indicators. Peter
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 09:06am
|
|||
|
|||
|
I agree with Peter's Osborne's assessment in that there is more to the story.
Originally posted by twest My son's team was playing in a USSSA tournament this weekend. The umpires were being very nit-picky to begin with. Example, there was no base coach chalk line to indicate where he had to stand, but our coach got warned in 2 different innings rudely by the umpire. But when the hometown coach was out on the field standing in the same spots, nothing was said. Forget about a chalk line as IMO that's irrelevant. During Tournaments, Umpires are instructed to be nit-picky and for very good reasons. Since we are dealing with teams from "all over the place" we want to keep control of the game. There was probably a good reason why your coach got warned which we are not privy to in your thread. But, one of the board members (again, playing a hometown team) came to our dugout in the last inning as we were playing defense to tell the coach that he needed to put his count indicator away or else he would be ejected! First off the UMPIRES NOT ANYONE else has control of the game, meaning the BOD person cannot EJECT anyone in the PLAYING FIELD. He can ask a FAN to leave but that is Outside the diamond not inside. So the aforementioned statement by you is where IMO it gets shaky Forget about the indicator, the only ones allowed in the dugout are coaches and players - PERIOD. When you say "he came to our dugout" my gut feeling is that the BOD member came to the "dugout area" which is a BIG difference, because the umpire if he saw someone other than the Coaches and Players in the dugout would have or should have instructed the BOD member to leave. Bottom line in my opinion there's a "History" that we do not know about. Your thread is not about rules governing indicators but a problem with a BOD member. Pete Booth [Edited by PeteBooth on Jun 7th, 2005 at 10:12 AM]
__________________
Peter M. Booth
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 09:54am
|
|||
|
|||
|
I personally don't mind a coach having an indicator; I view it the same as a scorebook, which they are allowed to have in the coaches box. These are tools to keep track of the game.
Someone was quoting FED rules and did anyone notice that a pen or pencil wasn't on the allowed list?!? Are we going to be an OOO and force the coach to put his writing instrument away too? I've had coaches question the count; I'll check with my partner and adjust it if I was wrong. A coach can argue the count just the same, with or without an indicator, and he gets the same leeway in an arguement, with or without an indicator - slim to none. His behavior dictates my level of response, not a scorebook or indicator in his hand.
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 10:09am
|
|||
|
|||
|
I 'd like to be there!
Quote:
Let's see, someone mentioned a pencil, what about sunglasses? Cell phone I've mentioned before? I know the rules - this is simply not something that should be or needs to be enforced unless a coach is gaining some type of advantage. Like do I even look at the coach to see what's he got in his "possession". Thanks David
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 11:55am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Coach?
Where's a coach?
If I hadn't seen it move, I would have thought it was a fence post. 
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:12pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: And,
Quote:
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:16pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Re: The Rest of the Story
Quote:
1st - you COULD be right. Nothing suprises me any more. HOWEVER: I also think you may be so far/ so long removed from the "lower" youth-ball trenches that you are looking to read in something that ain't necessarily there. She's pi$$y about the umpiring; OK, that's a red flag: but the "rest of the story" on the coach's indiclicker is right there in plain sight: A "host" BOARD MEMBER [not one of the game umpires] took it upon him/herself to tell a visiting coach to do something, on pain of ejection. Why would one need to believe that there is more to the story than that, or particularly that the visiting coach was somehow an instigator/ co-participant in such foolishness? "Board Members" are a common, unrelieved pain in the posterior, when it comes to thinking that their administrative position entitles them to be heard about what is happening as the game is played. It would also not suprise me to discover that the home-boys called in the Board member for this precise interference upon failing to obtain satisfaction from the game umpires. I once had a "Board Member" [actually he was the Division Commissioner] walk onto my field from the concession stand [I later discovered that he had been sent for by a coach] to tell me I was incorrectly allowing a starting pitcher to return to the mound. [FWIW: team A had only 9 players; starting F1 switched w/ F7 at the beginning of an inning (no visits); then, 2 innings later switched back. Perfectly legal under the published rules. The fight was over whether there had been a "substitution" for the starter. CB= Kid was never off the field: no sub. Wasn't removed from the mound by rule-req's: he can come back/ switch x1 per inning, by rule.] This was NOT a tournament w/ "resolve it on the field" protest rules: regular season U10 game. I could not get this guy to understand, nor could I get him to leave voluntarily w/o me buying his [incorrect] ruling: so I ejected him. BTW, this was during the period when I was allowing my "inner Stalin" free rein. And, the "rest of the story" in my case: I still [occasionally] do ball for this league; and am on good and cordial terms with the fellow I ejected.
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 12:31pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Paraphrasing Bill Murray -- "Caddyshack"
|
|
Tue Jun 07, 2005, 07:40pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
HHH is probably right about the rest of the story, but it's interesting to me that he has assumed the poster to be a woman (ie "your husband"), when the only clue in the original post was "my son's team". While I noticed this, I probably would not notice if a coach had an indicator.
|
|
Wed Jun 08, 2005, 12:15am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Actually she says "our coach (my husband)" in the 6th sentence of the second paragraph of the original post of this thread. In any case my guess is that even if you had seen the indicator, you wouldn't "notice" it.
|
|
Wed Jun 08, 2005, 03:35am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
And that's the rest of the story.
|
|
Wed Jun 08, 2005, 06:33pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
You want the whole story? Get Ready!
Hello All who has contributed to my simple little question:
1. The night I found this little message board was the night we had this little problem with the clicker. It was a Sunday night about 11:30 pm, I had been out in the sun all day with the temp being about 95. I was hot and tired and pi$$y! I had to be at work at 8 am the next day and I really didn't feel like typing the whole story, but if Peter insists on the whole thing, here ya go! 2. I am the wife of the coach so mentioned in the previous story also a very upset fan who didn't appreciate being treated unfairly to the opposing home team. My husband is not gay, good observation though! 3. We played this team in pool play the day before, but got it called off because of storms. They scored 8 runs on us in the first inning. It wasn't looking good. We switched pitchers and caught on to some tricks that the opposing 3rd base coach was doing. These are 14 yr old boys, keep in mind. We are a league team, not a hand picked team like alot are. Their 3rd base coach would wait until our pitcher was getting ready to release the ball and would yell things like "GO GO GO, OR NOW NOW NOW!" And no one would even be on base. Well, what are we in kindergarten? So, my husband, head coach, goes and talks to the head umpire behind the plate about it. (not the same umpire as the next day). He stated that he had been doing it all year long in their league and nothing could be done about it. Well, so then our kids started yelling out the pitch that the opposing pitcher was going to pitch to try to get back at them. This was about 4th inning and we finally got on the board with 2 runs (8-2 now) with 2 on base when they called the game because of storms coming in. So we thought we would be able to finish the game out the next day, but it didn't happen that way. We were told we could only finish out the inning and we already had 1 out, so we forfeited the game. It was only pool play, so coaches made the decision to save our kids having to play in the heat. 4. Next day, we played out another pool play game and won. Since the forfeit, we were already seeded. We were to play the same team from the day before that was beating us 8-2 for the semi-final game. The winner goes to the championship. First inning out, (we were visitors) we scored 3 runs. This is what I think got it started, we were beating them 3-2 for 2 innings. "We scored 8 runs on them the day before, why are they beating us now? So let's do something about it!" So, my guess is they coach said something to the ump about our coach to start some trouble. When our coach, my husband, goes out to coach 3rd base in the 3rd inning, the umpire (1st time we had this ump) says he was stepping out of the coach's box. So, he asks, 'Where is it? There is no chalk line?' So he takes a few steps back and forth whatever, until the ump is satisfied. Fine, well, the opposing team's coach of 3rd base goes out (same one yelling stuff in the 1st game). He is standing in the exact same spot that my husband was. So we were letting the ump know about it (the moms). Nothing ever said by ump. Then the next inning, the ump again says that my husband is standing out of the box, so he smartly stands in the dirt of the baseline 1 ft from the bag and the ump goes on. So, I got up and went to find the tournament director. I told him the situation and he said he would watch to find out what was going on. Nothing happened while he was standing there, but while I had gotten up, the umpire was the telling our kids they couldn't step out of the box to get a sign! Everytime they stepped out, he would say, GET BACK IN THE BOX!. By this time we were down 4-3 and only about 20 mins left in the game. We didn't score any, and we weren't home, so we knew we weren't going to win by this time. When the opposing team came up to bat, nothing was ever said to their kids about wasting time. We knew that's what they were doing because each kid took time to do something unneccessary like, take helmet off and clean glasses, untie and tie their shoes. The umpire NEVER made them hurry up and tell them to GET BACK IN THE BOX! Like he did ours. So, it was totally called unfair from the beginning of the game. So, with about 10 minutes to go, that is when this board member who was apparantly 'head of the umpires' came INTO OUR DUGOUT (for the one who thought he didn't) got 4 inches from my husbands nose and 'talked loudly' to tell him in front of our 3 bench players and 2 other coaches that he could not have the 'clicker' in the dugout and if he didn't put it away, he would be ejected. One of the mom's was standing next to the dugout when he said it, so there were lots of witnesses. My husband said, "you saw me clear from the concession stand with this in my hand and you had to walk all the way over here to tell me." He said "yep and if you don't put it away, you will be ejected!" Coach said, "well that's a new one on me! I've been coaching for 15 yrs and I've NEVER heard of such a thing!" He said, "it's illegal, now put it away" and he walked off. A few minutes later, the game was over and when I found out what that man had said to my husband, I was out to find him myself. First, I found the tournament director. We told him what happened. He apologized and said he would take care of it and he had never heard of such a thing either. We said we enjoyed playing at their facility, but it would be the last time because of the way we were treated by the umpires and the board member. A few minutes later I had words with the umpire. He said your coach needed to cool it. And I said "If you are going to be nitpicky about where our coach stands you better call it both ways and make a chalk line next time." He didn't have much to say after that and walked away. We saw the tournament director talking to the umpire about it because he said he watched and in no way was the way our coach was standing was it interfering with the way the kids were playing baseball. So then finally the little man/board member emerged from the concession stand. He hid out in there for about 20 mins, probably hoping we had left. The tournament director gets him out and is standing about 3 inches from his face chewing on him about something. We knew it had to be about our problem. But after about 5 mins on the @ss chewing, he walked directly to me and said that had nothing to do with the "Tonkawa" problem (our team). I said that I wanted to talk to that man personally and he told me that he was through talking to us about our problem and that if our coach wanted to talk to him (board member) he could, but I couldn't. So about that time, another team mom walked up to him (director) to complain about a 12 & under problem. One of their fans had just been ejected when he asked for his son's home run ball! Don't know what the whole story was, but it sounded a little outrageous to us! So in the meantime, I found Mr. Board Member and said "Why don't you look up that 'clicker rule' you just made up in the rule books. He said "Your coach could've been ejected for having it in the dugout or out on the field". I said, show me the rule because that is ridiculous!" He said, I don't have them, but we go by 3 rules. I said "what are they, because I'm going to look it up". That's when he said USSSA, OSSAA and Major League. I said I'd be going home to find out. I shouldn't have let him off the hook until he showed me in his rule books where it was because it was stupid and made no sense at all. We started to walk off and people were just lining up to complain to that tournament director about something. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last time he does that! There, is that enough for you Peter? That is the WHOLE STORY. Nothing left out.... As for the Northwest Arkansas guy, we LOVED playing in Bentonville. We have no complaints from our national tournament last year, plus, the country is beautiful! I wouldn't mind moving there! :-) We'd like to go again this year! Tisha West
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
