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Old Tue Mar 27, 2001, 11:15pm
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Question

You may recall a few years ago a fly ball bounced off Jose Canseco's head in right field and went over the wall for a Home Run. What is the call when the fly ball hits the top of the wall bounces back and hits the fielder's glove. It goes over the wall. Home Run? Double? and Why?
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Old Tue Mar 27, 2001, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ump20
You may recall a few years ago a fly ball bounced off Jose Canseco's head in right field and went over the wall for a Home Run. What is the call when the fly ball hits the top of the wall bounces back and hits the fielder's glove. It goes over the wall. Home Run? Double? and Why?
Once the ball has touched the face of the wall, it is no longer in flight (OBR 2.00). A bounding batted ball into the stands is a two-base award (7.05f). A ball off the fence is considered bounding for the purposes of 7.05f and 6.09g (J/R 8c).

P-Sz
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Old Tue Mar 27, 2001, 11:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski
Quote:
Originally posted by Ump20
You may recall a few years ago a fly ball bounced off Jose Canseco's head in right field and went over the wall for a Home Run. What is the call when the fly ball hits the top of the wall bounces back and hits the fielder's glove. It goes over the wall. Home Run? Double? and Why?
Once the ball has touched the face of the wall, it is no longer in flight (OBR 2.00). A bounding batted ball into the stands is a two-base award (7.05f). A ball off the fence is considered bounding for the purposes of 7.05f and 6.09g (J/R 8c).

P-Sz
Pat:

You're correct that a ball hitting the "face" of the wall, a fielder, and then going over the fence is a two-base award.

But the question specified the "top" of the wall.

If Ump20 meant the highest point of the facing of the fence, you're right: Two bases.

If Ump20 meant the true top of the fence, then it's a home run. That is, the plane of the barrier has been broken; when the ball falls back, it's just live and WYSIWYG. When it falls forward, it's a home run. When it's deflected forward, it's a home run. Deary for PBUC, 7/84. See BRD Section 19.
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Old Tue Mar 27, 2001, 11:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Childress
If Ump20 meant the true top of the fence, then it's a home run. That is, the plane of the barrier has been broken; when the ball falls back, it's just live and WYSIWYG. When it falls forward, it's a home run. When it's deflected forward, it's a home run. Deary for PBUC, 7/84. See BRD Section 19. [/B]
So sorry, so sorry. I've got to read more CAREFULLY! It's one of these things: Read the following capitalized words aloud without hesitation and right away:

NOW IS THE
THE TIME

Are you sure that's what it says? That phrase is common enough that our brains read it as a big lump and not each word at a time. We don't need to waste time processing every word.

But sometimes, we do.
=============
Now, back to baseball:

But are you saying that if a ball bounces off the top of the fence and a fielder catches it, it's an out? That just doesn't seem right.

It seems that we should use the direction of the carom to judge which part of the fence it struck. If the ball caroms straight up or back toward the field, it seems to have hit the face of the fence. If it caroms forward, it likely has it the top of the fence, thus broken the plane and should be a home run.

P-Sz
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2001, 12:07am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski
Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Childress
If Ump20 meant the true top of the fence, then it's a home run. That is, the plane of the barrier has been broken; when the ball falls back, it's just live and WYSIWYG. When it falls forward, it's a home run. When it's deflected forward, it's a home run. Deary for PBUC, 7/84. See BRD Section 19.
So sorry, so sorry. I've got to read more CAREFULLY! It's one of these things: Read the following capitalized words aloud without hesitation and right away:

NOW IS THE
THE TIME

Are you sure that's what it says? That phrase is common enough that our brains read it as a big lump and not each word at a time. We don't need to waste time processing every word.

But sometimes, we do.
=============
Now, back to baseball:

But are you saying that if a ball bounces off the top of the fence and a fielder catches it, it's an out? That just doesn't seem right.

It seems that we should use the direction of the carom to judge which part of the fence it struck. If the ball caroms straight up or back toward the field, it seems to have hit the face of the fence. If it caroms forward, it likely has it the top of the fence, thus broken the plane and should be a home run.

P-Sz [/B]
Pat:

An older trick is to ask someone to count the "e's" in the message on the back of a pack of Camel cigarettes. There are 13. In my experience about 1 in 50 got it right: We simply don't compute "e's."

Here's what I'm saying:

The PBUC has it both ways. They did that in those days because all leagues (short of AAA) were two-man crews, and the Deary ruling made for simple officiating.

The ball hits the top of the fence:

1. goes over: home run
2. falls back: play it
3. is caught: play it
4. deflects off the glove trying to catch it: home run

The point was to clarify what "in flight" meant. Hitting the TOP of the fence didn't mean the ball lost its "in flight" status. But since it has struck an unnatural object, it can't be caught for an out.

Let's say the fence is 9 feet high, made of 1x6 boards on both sides. The width of the fence at the top is 2 inches; they have a 2x4 "railing" all around the field to which they nail the fence boards.

Ruling that the top of the fence is "in flight" makes life so much easier. Because: When it doubt, that ball hit the top of the fence, not the facing. It gives equal chance to both sides whether they are batting or fielding. The balance is preserved, which is all they care about anyway.

[Edited by Carl Childress on Mar 27th, 2001 at 11:15 PM]
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Old Wed Mar 28, 2001, 12:10am
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"But are you saying that if a ball bounces off the top of the fence and a fielder catches it, it's an out? That just doesn't seem right."

That's NOT what was said. The ball's in play means it's still live and runner must be played on.

Bob



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