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Wed May 11, 2005, 08:40am
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Good god, I hope not. Let me give you a real life example of how this can escalate.
Working as a manager at a pizza delivery place in the late 80s. One of our drivers was the victim of an attempted robbery (of about $30 bucks, tops), and pulled something he was "packing" out of his car. Robber ran away, my driver got a good look and a license plate. Two days later, another attempted robbery - this time a different driver. Unfortunately, said robber had learned his lesson, and instead of just robbing my driver, he shot my driver first, took the money after. Driver survived ... and got a look at the assailant - same guy, same car. Think about this from an umpire perspective. You feel threatened and unpack something. Said fan leaves, but next time decides to pack something himself. You want to be the cause of a fellow blue being killed? 
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Wed May 11, 2005, 10:23am
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I think it would be foolish and impractical to carry a fire are to the field. A knife would be easy enough to carry and conceal but that would likely end up causing more trouble than it's worth. Most people don't know how to use a knife or when to actually deploy one. If you are feeling threatened, you best best is a cell phone.
Other than at your car, you best bet is to just leave. It is most always the smartest thing to do and is what you are legally required to do if you can. I suppose one could carry something in their car, but short of someone approaching you with or pulling out, a weapon, your better off getting in your car and getting the %$#* out of Dodge. I personally believe in the right to bear arms but have never felt the need to. In the Dominoes case, having been a driver for them, I would have just given them the money if no weapon was displayed. If a weapon was displayed and I had the means to defend myself, I wouldn't hesitate to do so if I judged it to be appropriate. While I feel very bad for the second driver, saying that someone shouldn't defend themselves because the perpatrator might hurt someone else in the future is specious logic at best and I strongly disagree with it. Everyone has an inalienable right to self defense, if one chooses.
__________________
Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know. ~Socrates
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Wed May 11, 2005, 11:31am
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Absolutely not!
No question about it! Never going to happen! End of discussion!
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Tony Smerk OHSAA Certified Class 1 Official Sheffield Lake, Ohio
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Wed May 11, 2005, 12:13pm
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Plainclothes police officers sometimes wear a specially-designed fanny pack that hinges at the bottom and has velcro or another fastening device at the top. One tug and the pack flops down revealing both their badge and a holster for their gun.
Perhaps we could design something similar for an umpire's ball bag (maybe as an extension of this bag)? 
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Wed May 11, 2005, 12:30pm
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Quote:
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Wed May 11, 2005, 12:51pm
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I am a police officer so I have a firearm with me at most games. It is not on my person, and I would hope that no umpire is "packing".
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Wed May 11, 2005, 01:40pm
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I think if you absolutely feel you need protection, you should bring a can of mace at the most.
In Pennsylvania, it's a felony for a coach or fan to threaten an umpire. If a coach or fan gives you the "i'll see you in the parking lot after the game", then you call the police and have them take care of it. Get the name of that guy from a coach or parent if you can.
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Wed May 11, 2005, 02:02pm
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I agree with mcrowder on the potential for escalation, don't you guys remember the cold war? In the Marines we had a saying, "every body gets cut in a knife fight." Under no circumstance should an umpire pack any kind of weapon. The day things get so bad that I need to carry a gun to the field is the same day I retire.
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Wed May 11, 2005, 10:40pm
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As an owner of a concealed carry license I have been taught that when carrying you should avoid situations that put you in a high stress situation.
For example, if you've had a crappy day at work and your wife just called your cell and reminded you about the 8 things you said you would do but didnt...don't step into a crowded convience store that could get held up. Odds are you'll not be making great decisions at this point. It would be a bad time to have to decide if you need to pull out a gun or not. As most would agree, umpiring is a high stress situation. At most keep your legal firearm in your car (if that is legal [know the law]). If you feel the need to carry something, try something non-lethal or turn back assignments at that ball park. Also, if you're in the middle of a game in a bad neighborhood and you have concerns for your well being, use your cell phone to call the police before the game is over. In most places the field is the best lit area. Stay on the field until the police arrive. [Edited by moorg on May 11th, 2005 at 11:47 PM]
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Wed May 11, 2005, 10:56pm
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In Oklahoma it is legal to carry but no way I would, especially to a ball game. Cannot have it on school property anyways. I agree with what was said before.. Cell phone is the answer.
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Jim Need an out, get an out. Need a run, balk it in.
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Thu May 12, 2005, 07:49am
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Pepper spray. Cheap, readily available, effective, non-lethal. Avoids the no-firearms-on-school-property problem here in VA and other places.
[An amendment to VA law is effective July 1, 2005, after which the holder of a VA concealed handgun permit may have a loaded handgun in a vehicle in a school parking lot or driveway. The handgun must remain concealed and may not be removed from the vehicle.]
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Thu May 12, 2005, 08:51am
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Your first and best response is to walk away, leave the area, just go away.
Pepper spray is not very effective. It will not incapacitate anyone. It will usually just serve to piss them off. Be careful thinking that it will drive someone away or prevent an attack. And yes I know first hand the effects of pepper spray through military training. Quote:
__________________
Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know. ~Socrates
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Thu May 12, 2005, 09:04am
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Regardless of bad situations, including being in one myself a few months back at a basketball game, I can't even believe this discussion is going on.
__________________
I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much.
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Thu May 12, 2005, 09:43am
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Quote:
It may be close to 11:00 PM and we are in an isolated county park or in back of some school. It is dark. There are twenty-some players and two umpires. Why is it so hard to believe we would discuss this?
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but has anyone considered carrying 'protection' for incidents such as Mr Rutledge has described earlier?
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