partner appeals.....

[thumpferee]

Had this happen this weekend. I am PU.

Two outs, bases empty. Batter hits ground ball to SS. SS's throw is off target toward 1b line. F3 pulls foot to catch throw and, well you probably know the rest, collision. BU calls BR safe at first on the pulled foot.

Well here comes D coach. He heads toward BU and says rather loudly, "I know he pulled his foot, but he made the tag. Can you maybe get some help on that?

My p then looks at me from 90 feet away and asks me: "did you see a tag?"

I call him over to discuss the play between us. I tell him that F3 definately made the tag before BR touched first. I let him know it was his call to change. BU turns and calls BR out. No one complains.

Should I have just banged the BR out on my P's request, or was this the way to handle it?

Thanks!

[mbyron]

No, you're good. Give your partner what you have in private, and let him make the call. If you call it from across the diamond, you can get into all kinds of mess.

[scyguy]

as PU you are coming up the line and are probably near the 45. You have a good view of a tag. This is an appealable situation. Usually we vocalize this as it happens. BU will ask, "Did he get him on the tag?" PU will say "Yes he did", BU will ring him. This way BU does not make one call and then have to reverse it. This situation should be discussed in pregame, just like a pulled foot at first when BU is in C.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by thumpferee
Had this happen this weekend. I am PU.

Two outs, bases empty. Batter hits ground ball to SS. SS's throw is off target toward 1b line. F3 pulls foot to catch throw and, well you probably know the rest, collision. BU calls BR safe at first on the pulled foot.

Well here comes D coach. He heads toward BU and says rather loudly, "I know he pulled his foot, but he made the tag. Can you maybe get some help on that?

My p then looks at me from 90 feet away and asks me: "did you see a tag?"

I call him over to discuss the play between us. I tell him that F3 definately made the tag before BR touched first. I let him know it was his call to change. BU turns and calls BR out. No one complains.

Should I have just banged the BR out on my P's request, or was this the way to handle it?

Thanks!

I know this topic has been discussed several times before here, under "Getting the call Right", and I am not trying to rain on thumpferee's parade here.

Twice this season I have discussed this very thing in my pre-game and lo and behold my partner does not ask for help, makes a decision and then wants me to bail him out when the coach comes out. Now , this situation may be slightly different because more happened on the play than the BU was able to comprehend. However, it has the potential for the discussion of when to support your partner after the fact or when NOT TO.

In my own situations, I have told the coach that my partner made his call and that is what we are sticking with. I then discussed it AGAIN with my partner after the game. Both partners were realively new and I thought it would be a good lesson in learning mechanics for these situations.

What say you?

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by jicecone

Twice this season I have discussed this very thing in my pre-game and lo and behold my partner does not ask for help, makes a decision and then wants me to bail him out when the coach comes out. Now , this situation may be slightly different because more happened on the play than the BU was able to comprehend. However, it has the potential for the discussion of when to support your partner after the fact or when NOT TO.


What say you? [/B]

... while you're on the field, you should always support your partner. After the game you can get together and discuss situations that came up and how they could've/should've been handled.

I am one who believes in "getting the call right". So, if my partner comes to me for any reason, I am going to tell him/her what I saw. I may also give him/her some added advise if we shouldn't be talking.

There is a time and a place to ask/not ask for help, but not to NOT support your p.

JMO

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by scyguy
as PU you are coming up the line and are probably near the 45. You have a good view of a tag. This is an appealable situation. Usually we vocalize this as it happens. BU will ask, "Did he get him on the tag?" PU will say "Yes he did", BU will ring him. This way BU does not make one call and then have to reverse it. This situation should be discussed in pregame, just like a pulled foot at first when BU is in C.

I understand the mechanic as you stated, but I personally don't agree with it. It has been discussed, quite lengthy I might add, in another post.

IMO we make calls based on what we see. Ball beats runner to the bag, out. Runner beats ball, safe.
I am going to make the call. If for some reason there may be any question, I have no problem going to my P.

Ex: R1, BU obviously in B. F3 pulls foot on the throw. BU makes no call, looks to PU, "did he hold the bag?", and he is between home and third or while taking off his mask his glasses fell off or pitcher was in his way or etc...

It's going to be hard to sell that call now. And chances are, the call will be an incorrect one. If a call is made, and then we go to our p, nobody would know he didn't see it.

I'm not trying to start a new thread on this!

JMO

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by scyguy
as PU you are coming up the line and are probably near the 45. You have a good view of a tag. This is an appealable situation. Usually we vocalize this as it happens. BU will ask, "Did he get him on the tag?" PU will say "Yes he did", BU will ring him. This way BU does not make one call and then have to reverse it. This situation should be discussed in pregame, just like a pulled foot at first when BU is in C.

Hi Sc, In the past if I were the BU I have handled it as you describe. However, at a recent clinic that I attended it was suggested that rather then vocalizing get together privately to see if your partner has information that would cause you to change the call. The clincian's reasoning was perhaps your partner didn't see the play in which case what's he going to say? The clinician brought up a good point. Personally I had this situation happen to me as BU however, I saw that my partner (who I have worked many a game with) coming up the line had the perfect angle and I vocalized my request and then I made my call. In all honesty I should have got this by myself, but I misjudged the throw and I was slightly out of position. I had another situation with my partner in the A position with a grounder to 1B. He can't get get the handle on the ball eventually he does before BR touches first however, my partner couldn't see that this happened and calls the runner safe. Defensive Coach gets him to appeal to me I tell him what I saw and said to him "it's up to you to change the call I had him clearly out". He reverses his call and surprise surprise the Offensive Coach agrees that this was correct and we play on.

[scyguy]

gordon
did they tell you to go ahead as BU and make a call then confere or make no call, confere and determine call?

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by scyguy
gordon
did they tell you to go ahead as BU and make a call then confere or make no call, confere and determine call?

Make a call and then confer.

[vhs68]

this happened sunday in 12u usssa ok-texas shootout tourney between 2 top teams in the southwest--my son was playing. final score was 4-3 which really has nothing to do with this stitch.

PU calls & signals strike on check swing. then he appeals to BU down 1st base line--did he go? BU goes --no swing!! PU changes call to ball. obviously this brings the defensive coach out for a 'discussion'. coach gets tossed by PU as discussion degenerates into what a sorry-*** job PU is doing. asst. coach gets tossed 1 batter later by BU. UIC who is also tournament director is at this field and observes all that happens. i jump the UIC that you can't reverse a strike already called on a check swing. he says 'thats not in the book'----but it's bad umpiring to change a strike call. nothing is done--and all heck breaks out for the next few batters----UIC finally tells PU / BU he will handle everything back here (outside the fence)--you guys handle play on the field. BU was itching to toss a spectator. ie; ME.

although this one play had no effect on the game outcome---it does give you prespective of how things went. the losing team did lose 2 coaches as the result of blues incompentance.---for once they did have a legit beef.

jl

[jxt127]

They lost two coaches because the coaches lost their tempers and decorum on the field not because of the calls of the umpires right wrong or otherwise.

It's really simple.

Coach: Time please.

Blue: Granted

Coach approaches umpire.

Coach: I don't believe you can appeal a check swing on a strike call.

Blue: Yes I can

Coach: I'd like to lodge a protest

Blues: discuss and make a decision.

etc.

No fuss no mess no ejections.

[mcrowder]

Too many coaches think it's their god-given right to rant and rave on a call he disagrees with. After all, he sees it on TV all the time, and those are the BIG BIG boys. And it never fails that this is a rather stupid course of action, when a completely calm protest is a valid and appropriate choice in these sitches.