Mechanic - Help from Plate on Foot Pull

[BayouUmp]

I had plate the other night with 2 outs and close play @ 1B. BU is set, sees the play, then yells "FOOT" and points to me.

Is this the proper way to ask for help? I expect to be pointed at for help, not "FOOT" yelled at me.

I was @ the 45-foot line and did indeed have a pulled foot, but this confused the defense..."What did he say?" and they started trotting off the field.

In pre-game I said 'look' to me for help on a foot-pull.

[mcrowder]

Umpires yelling anything other than SAFE, OUT, or other calls that players need to hear is probably a bad mechanic. But regardless of the mechanic you and your partner decide to use, make SURE you are exactly on the same page regarding how you are going to do it - sounds like you thought you were going in, until it came time to actually do it.

Another reason this should be a look, and not a yell, is - once coach sees this once, if he hears you do it again and you (PU) DON'T have the call (perhaps there was other items more directly your responsibility that you were watching), coach will be irate that you "missed" the pulled foot (whether there was one or not!)

The mechanic that I, and my guys, use is for BU, when unsure about a possible pulled foot, to glance quickly at PU. If PU has seen a pulled foot, he's got his hands near his sides, pointing out (sort of a mini-safe-signal). If he either has an out, or did not see the play, he does nothing. This way, BU makes the call relatively seamlessly and coaches are not alerted to anything at all.

[gordon30307]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BayouUmp
[B]I had plate the other night with 2 outs and close play @ 1B. BU is set, sees the play, then yells "FOOT" and points to me.

Is this the proper way to ask for help? I expect to be pointed at for help, not "FOOT" yelled at me.

I was @ the 45-foot line and did indeed have a pulled foot, but this confused the defense..."What did he say?" and they started trotting off the field.

In pre-game I said 'look' to me for help on a foot-pull.





Did he have the base is what I say. Or do you have a tag if there's a swipe tag. In either case there's a delayed call by the base umpire. It's the defenses's problem if they're confused. After you gave him the answer did he call the runner safe?

[officialtony]

As the PU, I prefer a little different signal to send to the BU. We agree, before the game, that if he is unsure he can glance at me briefly before he makes his call. If I have an out, I have my right fist clenched discreetly on my thigh, much like an out or strike signal. This assures him from my vantage point half way up the line that the foot was there. He can then determine if the ball beat the runner or vice-versa. This applies only if he questions the 1st baseman's foot off the bag. Otherwise, the call is his. In either case, I back him up on his call.
Anything you agree on ahead of time will work - short of yelling out " foot ".
We have repeatedly been advised to minimze those extracurricular hand signals as many coaches try to pick them up and then put you on the spot. If I can move one hand instead of two, I feel like I have a better shot at hiding it from the coach.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Umpires yelling anything other than SAFE, OUT, or other calls that players need to hear is probably a bad mechanic. But regardless of the mechanic you and your partner decide to use, make SURE you are exactly on the same page regarding how you are going to do it - sounds like you thought you were going in, until it came time to actually do it.

Another reason this should be a look, and not a yell, is - once coach sees this once, if he hears you do it again and you (PU) DON'T have the call (perhaps there was other items more directly your responsibility that you were watching), coach will be irate that you "missed" the pulled foot (whether there was one or not!)

The mechanic that I, and my guys, use is for BU, when unsure about a possible pulled foot, to glance quickly at PU. If PU has seen a pulled foot, he's got his hands near his sides, pointing out (sort of a mini-safe-signal). If he either has an out, or did not see the play, he does nothing. This way, BU makes the call relatively seamlessly and coaches are not alerted to anything at all.

With all of the guys that I've worked with including a number who went to professional umpire schools and all of the camps and clinics that I've attended and I've been to the Jerry Davis umpiring clinic twice I've never heard of hand signals being used between the base umpire and the plate umpire when it comes to a pulled foot or swipe tags at first base. I've been asked for help verbally and I've asked for help verbally and the defense is never confused. And so what if the coaches know that you as base umpire asked for help on a pulled foot.Asking for help is the proper mechanic. Done properly there's a second or two delay when you make your call. Hey if I'm wrong refer me to a recognized source that hand signals are the proper mechanic.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by officialtony
As the PU, I prefer a little different signal to send to the BU. We agree, before the game, that if he is unsure he can glance at me briefly before he makes his call. If I have an out, I have my right fist clenched discreetly on my thigh, much like an out or strike signal. This assures him from my vantage point half way up the line that the foot was there. He can then determine if the ball beat the runner or vice-versa. This applies only if he questions the 1st baseman's foot off the bag. Otherwise, the call is his. In either case, I back him up on his call.
Anything you agree on ahead of time will work - short of yelling out " foot ".
We have repeatedly been advised to minimze those extracurricular hand signals as many coaches try to pick them up and then put you on the spot. If I can move one hand instead of two, I feel like I have a better shot at hiding it from the coach.

It's your job and it's a proper mechanic for the plate umpire to be coming down the line to answer the question concerning a pulled foot or swipe tage. You provide the answer to the question and the base umpire makes the call. Why are you hiding this from the coach? There's nothing to hide. I don't know what level of ball you work (Not putting you down or trying to insult you don't misundertand me) but if you do high school varsity on up the Coaches know that it's the plate umpires job to provide assistance for a pulled foot or on a swipe tag. If BR is called out and the Coach thinks he's safe he's going to be all over BU saying he should get help from PU. How are you going to explain this? Are you going to tell him you gave a hand signal? Do you think he's going to believe you?

[Edited by gordon30307 on Feb 23rd, 2005 at 04:00 PM]

[Tim C]

Secret Signals NEVER remain secret.

Please do not use any type closed fist signal. In Big Boy ball you will eventually be found out and it will make life heck for both you and your pards.

Once again, follow up the line and be ready to help. Do not insert yourself into the play until asked (if asked) then react.

NEVER have a secret signal.

I guess I just killed this dead horse further.

[officialtony]

I'm not sure where we came up with this idea of hand signals. I'm not sure why we don't just verbalize it ( when asked ). Obviously we do when requested from our partners. I know there are more than a few who do use these kinds of signals ( see mcrowder's post ). I will check with our association and see if I can come up with an answer and if necessary, change away from them.
Now I have a question for you. With all the experience you have with those who have gone to professional umpire schools and all the camps and clinics you have attended - including twice to the Jerry Davis umpiring clinic - why would you have to come to this forum with a question about someone yelling " foot " and looking to you for a response? Even a lowly official like myself knows that is improper mechanics (Not putting you down or trying to insult you don't misunderstand me).
Just curious.

[jicecone]

Up here in Ct we use our newly designed Indaclickercounter WalkieTalkie/PDA/Cell phone with the head set attachment. The coaches have agreed not to ask us why we keep talking to our hand, as long as we get the call right.

Most of the coaches know that I don't use one, so when they see me still talking to my hand they think somethings really weird about me and are afraid say anything to me. Works real good.

You got to be careful though if you got the dish and the earpiece volume is too high and you miss a pitch. Your partner is ragging you in one ear, and the catcher in the other. Quick headaches.

I can't wait to be at 1B on a check swing and have my partner yell out "Did he Go", Im going to signal safe and at the same time tell him "No",,,then quietly into my indaclic......phone, "But he should have".

[GarthB]

Originally posted by jicecone

I can't wait to be at 1B on a check swing and have my partner yell out "Did he Go", Im going to signal safe and at the same time tell him "No",,,then quietly into my indaclic......phone, "But he should have".

Better yet, signal strike and say "No, but it caught the corner."

[mikebran]

NO. IT IS NOT! Gawd.

Originally posted by BayouUmp
BU is set, sees the play, then yells "FOOT" and points to me.

Is this the proper way to ask for help?

[Rich]

Originally posted by mikebran
NO. IT IS NOT! Gawd.

I feel obliged to mention that the right answer is for the base umpire to get his a$$ into position and get the call right himself.

[BayouUmp]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I feel obliged to mention that the right answer is for the base umpire to get his a$$ into position and get the call right himself.

There's your answer..

My comment to the BU after the game on this sit, was "Go ahead and make the call, and if coach wants you to get help from me, then get it".

I just felt that yelling "Foot" was just like saying "He's safe, right?" Well, if you think he's safe why you yelling?

Obviously...clear communication is the key. Thanks everyone.

[Tim C]

I agree with Rich . . .

As a BU, in this situation in over 3,600 games I have NEVER even considered asking for help.

I work hard and get my own calls.

[officialtony]

Wow,
Well I certainly haven't worked over 3600 games. I just read the FED Umpires Manual. When it says
" On the ground ball hit to the infield, head towards first base, either down the running lane or on the infield grass. Try to get at least 10 to 15 feet from home plate, the farther the better, but stop in time to watch the play at first. This initial hustle shortens the distance to where the action is. It also gives you a better vantage point from which to see runner infractions. Sometimes what starts as a routine play develops into a difficult situation for the base umpire. If the plate umpire has moved properly, he will be where he can see what is happening and be of assistance to his partner, if his help is requested. "( page 14, Item VI.,15 ), it certainly wasn't written for Tee because he NEVER needs help at 1st in that situation.
If the situation couldn't arise, FED wouldn't cover it.
I can tell you it was written for me because I may need help - and I will certainly ask for help if I need it because I want to make the RIGHT call. My ego isn't that big that I think I can't make a mistake or miss a call. Someday I'll be that good - I hope.