Mechanic - Help from Plate on Foot Pull

[GarthB]

Over the years I have joined Tee and Rich in their position on this issue and have shared in some of the catigation from certain interntet umpires.

After spending a week at the Desert Classic last November, I came home even more convinced of the correctness of our position and it is NOT about "you get yours I'll get mine." It IS possible to avoid being straightlined and to avoid a crap throw from causing you grief.

From my experience the primary reasons people have problems accepting Tee position on this is that they: 1. Forget to read the quality of the throw prior to coming set for the play. 2. If they even bother to check the throw, they fail to move or lean or both as the throw would dictate to see the play.

This is not the "impossible dream" so many internet umpires sing about. One can work that play without needing help.

[Edited by GarthB on Feb 24th, 2005 at 02:01 PM]

[officialtony]

Ok, I'm going to start by apologizing to EVERYBODY.

My level of expertise is limited to High School Varsity baseball and BELOW. I do not do college. I do not do minor league. And I certainly do not go to the big show. I came to the site with my questions and input because I thought we were all amateur umpires and we could share ideas, interpretations, and expectations. I am not in the same league as many of you. So my experience really doesn't ( can't ) count for much. I didn't realize that there were professionals on this site. I will again apologize to you. You have paid your dues and earned the repect that I should be giving you. I only hope that you will indulge my future posts and know that I look to you for honest experienced feedback and nothng more. Please accept my apologies. I want to learn to be better. I want to have the confidence that you exude. I want my calls to be natural and right because I did everything right to get me to that call. I will learn that thru experience and the input I hope to get from now on - with my eyes wide open.

Once again, accept my apologies for not understanding.

I am most sincere with this post.

And thank you in advance for your patience on my future posts.

[officialtony]

Side note to gordon30307.
My apologies. You are correct. It was not your post and you did not deserve the comments.

Please read my previous note.

And please accept my apologies.


Thanks to all.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by officialtony
Side note to gordon30307.
My apologies. You are correct. It was not your post and you did not deserve the comments.

Please read my previous note.

And please accept my apologies.


Thanks to all.

Hi Tony,

I'm not a professional I do JUCO and High School Varsity and during the summer some wood bat leagues that consist of present and past D1 college players ex minor leaguers etc. No problem Tony have a good season.

[fwump]

WOW....3600 games never kicked a call at 1B. Tee you're my hero.

Mike

[Tim C]

Over the years on the Internet I have been called arrogant, saracastic, cocky, conceited, bombastic and self indulgent.

I am all of that and more (with heartfelt apology to Howard Cosell).

By good fortune (and being old) I have been blessed by having great umpire friends suck as Nck Bremigan and John McSherry. I have been trained by people as different as Gary Darling and Dale Scott to Joe Brinkman and Mike Winters.

I was lucky to be able to work major college baseball when it wasn not as NEARLY difficult to get your break as it is now.

The same goes for working MLB spring training in the old days when if you hung around you'd get asked.

The one thing I am is never bashful about saying the "way things outta be . . ." and MOST the time I am pretty close to being right.

We deal with a difficult situation on the internet.

Because OBR does not have a Case Book and the only official interpretations come from the MLB League office we have only items such as the NAPL Manual (official rulings at the Milb level), the MLB Redbook, Jaksa/Roder and the JEA.

This means that not all umpires have equal access to information

So what we get down to are what are called "Authorative Opinions" . . . and that falls into the eyes of the beholder.

We can discuss items like "unrelaxed/relaxed" and give opinion but we really are only doing the umpire version of the "hot stove league".

There are guys such as Bob Jenkins, Carl Childress, Rich Froneheiser, Dave Hensley an d a handful of others that have at their fingertips inportant reference documents and good crisp thinking. These are people that know, understand and can explain the rules of the game.

At the FED level we do have rules book case book and umpire manual but we find that indivdual areas have indivdual umpires that simply "set aside" rules they do not like.

Here's what I am getting at:

Half the issue of internet communication is establishing the versimiltitude of the poster so you can see what they say has value. Experienced people who post here have established there own style and proven their knowledge.

When new posters come on they usually get tested (I know I did when I joined boards eight years ago) and some pass and some do not.

Baseball boards are far different that either football or basketball boards and I think the general membership are also different.

I am simply an umpire that, through good luck, has had a solid career.

I work hard at all parts of my game, I train umpires just as hard as I was trained and post here with that same attitude.


fwUmp, never said I never kicked a call . . . I've kicked my share, and yours I'm sure.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by jicecone

Can't speak for anyone else here, but the motivation that gives you the confidence to make that call, is experience. Seeing the situation in front of you enough times, that you just KNOW your right. Can this lead to arrogance, you bet. That is the fine line ALL good officials have to walk, all the time.

Once you achieve this plateau of confidence through experience, well it just does'nt enter your mind that "you may not have all the information". You know you do.

I want to make sure I understand your post. Are you saying based upon what you have seen in the past even though you are reasonably sure (not 100%) you are correct you wouldn't go to your partner for help? My question to you would be why is there a mechanic in a two man system where the plate umpire is required to help the base umpire with plays at first? If I'm misunderstanding your post please clarify.

[GarthB]

Over the years on the Internet I have been called arrogant, saracastic, cocky, conceited, bombastic and self indulgent.


You forgot egotistical, know-it-all, annoying, self-important, delusional, and most importantly: dangerous, as in "the most dangerous umpire on the internet."

[officialtony]

Tee,

I failed at my entry level test in your eyes I am sure.
Please don't judge me too harshly.
Can we start over and just let me try as the new poster again?
I am anxious to pick your proverbial brains as I grow in experience and knowledge.

[GarthB]

My question to you would be why is there a mechanic in a two man system where the plate umpire is required to help the base umpire with plays at first?

The plate umpire is REQUIRED to help the base umpire?

REQUIRED? What if he doesn't ask? Do you run out and yell, "no, no, I've got a pulled foot."

You do that around here and you'll end up with something else pulled.



[Edited by GarthB on Feb 24th, 2005 at 03:21 PM]

[gordon30307]

Hey Tee, I do basketball as well and was doing a game with a new guy. When we were done he thanked me for the advice and I told him all I'm doing is passing on to you what I was taught by others. The point is every now and then I pick up something from a grizzled veteran such as yourself that I can use and I pass it on to the next guy when asked.

You have an interesting way of handling calls at first when trouble arises as per previous posts and obviously this has worked for you in the past not sure I agree but I'll give it more thought.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by GarthB
My question to you would be why is there a mechanic in a two man system where the plate umpire is required to help the base umpire with plays at first?

The plate umpire is REQUIRED to help the base umpire?

Required in the sense that you and watch for this. C'mon you know what I meant.

REQUIRED? What if he doesn't ask? Do you run out and yell, "no, no, I've got a pulled foot."

Of course not. Even though you called out and the foot was pulled I say nothing unless asked. However you wouldn't ask and I'd have to help you eject players and Coaches.


You do that around here and you'll end up with something else pulled.

You do that to me and you'll have a foot...........


[Edited by GarthB on Feb 24th, 2005 at 03:21 PM]

[jicecone]

Originally posted by gordon30307

I want to make sure I understand your post. Are you saying based upon what you have seen in the past even though you are reasonably sure (not 100%) you are correct you wouldn't go to your partner for help? My question to you would be why is there a mechanic in a two man system where the plate umpire is required to help the base umpire with plays at first? If I'm misunderstanding your post please clarify.

I now know what it is like to conduct a White House press briefing, where the word "and" is taken to have 25 meanings, with hidden undertones.

Just as experience gains you confidence, it can also help in discerning doubt. In those situations, I would have no problems in doing whatever it takes to make the right call. If that means following the mechanic you speak of, so be it.

[Tim C]

Gordon:

Do you agree that if you BU calls the guy OUT! at first that there is no way that help can be asked for or given?

Tee

[GarthB]

Originally posted by gordon30307
My question to you would be why is there a mechanic in a two man system where the plate umpire is required to help the base umpire with plays at first?

The plate umpire is REQUIRED to help the base umpire?

Required in the sense that you and watch for this. C'mon you know what I meant.

REQUIRED? What if he doesn't ask? Do you run out and yell, "no, no, I've got a pulled foot."

Of course not. Even though you called out and the foot was pulled I say nothing unless asked. However you wouldn't ask and I'd have to help you eject players and Coaches.
[/B]

No, I didn't know what you meant. I did read, however, what you said.

Now that I understand what you meant, the answer is easy. The mechanic exists so that the PU can offer help IF the BU needs it. Nothing there that contradicts Tee's thinking and practice. He simply hasn't needed the help.