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Old Tue Oct 19, 2004, 09:47pm
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Rules: OBR
situation: man on 3rd with 1 out. batter bunts the ball but steps squarely in the middle of the plate. catcher fields the ball, throws to 1st and the 1st baseman then throws to 3rd and catches the runner. Rule 6.06(a) says the batter is out but is it also a dead ball per 5.09(d)? We had a split decision on this at the end of a time limit game. If the ball was dead the game was over, if still alive we play one more inning due to the double play.
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Old Tue Oct 19, 2004, 09:52pm
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If the batter is called out for hitting the ball while having one foot on the ground completely outside the batter's box, it is an illegally batted ball, which is dead immediately.

You have no DP. Put R3 back on 3B and keep playing.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 08:05am
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I was told that this happened in the Yankees game last night by a Boston batter in the second inning (not stepping on the plate but stepping out of the batter's box and bunting the ball). Does anyone have this on tape maybe who can verify this?
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 09:28am
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Funny you should mention the Yankees game, I saw the play as well but Joe West did not call the infraction. The batter's right foot was clearly in front of the plate and out of the box. Remember George Brett being called out after hitting a home run because the pine tar extended too far up the bat? Rule 6.06 (d) "He uses or attempts to use a bat that, in the umpire's judgment, has been altered or tampered with in such a way to improve the distance factor or cause an unusual reaction on the baseball. This includes, bats that are filled, flat surfaced, nailed, hollowed, grooved or covered with a substance such as paraffin, wax, etc. No advancement on the bases will be allowed and any out or outs made during a play shall stand. In addition to being called out, the player shall be ejected from the game and may be subject to additional penalties as determined by his League President." I see bats covered with pine tar all the way out to the label or more and no one says anything. Better yet, has anyone ever called a balk on a pitcher who steps toward 3rd then wheels and throws to 1st while looking over his shoulder at 1st the entire time? If this is legal why have this part of rule 8.05(c)"However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion "wheels" and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk." A judgment that you are sure to be harrassed about for making.

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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 10:03am
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"Better yet, has anyone ever called a balk on a pitcher who steps toward 3rd then wheels and throws to 1st while looking over his shoulder at 1st the entire time? If this is legal why have this part of rule 8.05(c)"However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion "wheels" and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk." A judgment that you are sure to be harrassed about for making."


That's because 99.44% of the time the pitcher disengages as part of the move to third. Once disengaged no step or throw is required.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:07am
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Rich, are you saying that as part of the step towards 3rd the pivot foot comes off or are you saying that the pitcher steps back off the rubber prior to the fake towards 3rd? Also does this mean that you have encountered the .36% times the move has been illegal and called it?
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:08am
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correct my math... .56%
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally posted by haynesd
Rich, are you saying that as part of the step towards 3rd the pivot foot comes off or are you saying that the pitcher steps back off the rubber prior to the fake towards 3rd? Also does this mean that you have encountered the .36% times the move has been illegal and called it?
The foot comes off as part of the step / feint to third.

Once that happens, it's legal to throw to first, or feint to first ...

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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:41am
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I do not disagree. I guess my point is why have it in the book. If you call the balk everyone is going to argue that the pitcher stepped off the rubber legally. The move happens very fast and its unlikely anyone is looking at the pitcher's feet once he steps toward 3rd. I just find it potentially confusing just like the original posting. I say this because our chief umpire, a former minor league umpire and college umpire, said that stepping on the plate is not a dead ball. Of course maybe that's why he is no longer in the minor leagues.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 01:21pm
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The rule is in the book because what the rule refers to is when a pitcher steps toward third and then whirls on the balls of his feet with his feet never leaving their initial placement after that first step toward third. The only way is is possible to step toward third and then not lift your feet up off the ground again, and the throw to first is if you WHEEL or TWIST on the balls of your feet and fire to first without stepping towards the base first. That is the balk they are referring to.

Stepping on the plate is not an immediate dead ball. The batters foot has to be completely out of the batters box, ie. not touching any part of the line, to be considered out of the batters box when hitting a ball.

6.06
A batter is out for illegal action when_ (a) He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter's box. If a batter hits a ball fair or foul while out of the batter's box, he shall be called out.


Quote:
Originally posted by haynesd
I do not disagree. I guess my point is why have it in the book. If you call the balk everyone is going to argue that the pitcher stepped off the rubber legally. The move happens very fast and its unlikely anyone is looking at the pitcher's feet once he steps toward 3rd. I just find it potentially confusing just like the original posting. I say this because our chief umpire, a former minor league umpire and college umpire, said that stepping on the plate is not a dead ball. Of course maybe that's why he is no longer in the minor leagues.
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 02:01pm
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So Kalix, when the foot is squarely in the middle of the plate (no question the foot is completely out of the box)when the ball is hit are you saying "no dead ball" ?
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 02:46pm
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I wasn't sure what part of the rule you were referring to and since I was at work and didn't have the aid of reference, I didn't answer the "dead ball" issue.

Per OBR 5.09(d) An illegally batted ball causes the ball to be dead immediately and runners return to their TOP base.

Quote:
Originally posted by haynesd
So Kalix, when the foot is squarely in the middle of the plate (no question the foot is completely out of the box)when the ball is hit are you saying "no dead ball" ?
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Old Wed Oct 20, 2004, 03:03pm
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We are in agreement
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Old Sat Oct 23, 2004, 04:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Ives
That's because 99.44% of the time the pitcher disengages as part of the move to third. Once disengaged no step or throw is required.
Hm. Strange that Rich picked that number. Ivory soap claims to be 99.44% pure - see http://www.ivory.com/history.htm. Coincidence? Subliminal advertising?

Oh yeah, and I seem to recall that it's a FED rule that the batter is out if he hits the ball with any part of his foot touching the plate, whether or not he's still partly in the box.
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Old Sat Oct 23, 2004, 07:11am
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FED Rule 7 Section 3 Article 2 batter is out if he touches home plate while hitting the ball
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