Changed calls because of TV

[WindyCityBlue]

Please don't pretend that your are oblivious to the reaction of the players and crowd after you make a call. You know when you've done something wrong. You know how the demeanor of a player changes when he knows you are wrong. We are not talking competitive juices here...we are talking about making a call and knowing that you kicked it or not being sure, but still having to sell it.

As a specific example, lest there be confusion, I offer this: High school home team down by three and the bags are loaded in the seventh inning. Late afternoon and the sun is making it impossible to look into right center, sure enough the batter rockets one and my partner rules homerun on a clear ground rule double. the place went nuts when he made his signal. the visiting bench started pointing and objecting - the center fielder and right fielder were running in and the head coach is charging toward me at the dish. We had twenty people on the field! The fans were screaming - many for and some against. It just so happened that when I swept mt foot to clear the bat from the box, I got a great view and saw it bounce over. All of the runners touched and the head coach (the SOB saw it, too) was asking for the remaining baseballs. I informed him that it was going to be a double and his kids needed to get back on thrid and second. My partner was still already heading for the foul line and out the home team side for teh parking lot. (He would have been pulverized if the parking lot was on the other side.) I yelled for him to get over here and signalled "Time" and pointed for the runners to return. Sheepishly, the Home team coach asked "Did you get a real ggod look at it?" I just glared at him. My partner asked what was going on and I asked him if he saw the ball clear the fence on teh fly. He said, "No, but the player didn't put his hands up right away. Let's get out of here." I asked him if he couldn't here anyone yelling and he said - I'm not making this up - "My hearing aid isn't working well today." Stevie Wonder could have seen the kids jumping up and down and shouting about it bouncing over, but this guy figured that no one could have had a better view than he. He was wrong. The next batter jabbed one down the line for the winning runs to score, so the outcome was the same. I didn't big league him or rob him of his dignity. I did my job - without responding to the pleas of the players, coaches or fans.

I've worked some pretty big games and had my share of controversial calls. One thing always remains the same, you can't ignore the fact that our bad calls elicit far more noise than the close ones. I'm wise enough to know that my partners will always help and rely on me to help them, no matter how nasty the crowd gets. We've just been around long enough to know that some fans do know the difference!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Please don't pretend that your are oblivious to the reaction of the players and crowd after you make a call. You know when you've done something wrong. You know how the demeanor of a player changes when he knows you are wrong. We are not talking competitive juices here...we are talking about making a call and knowing that you kicked it or not being sure, but still having to sell it.

I can only speak for myself. I could give a damn. Maybe it is because in my other sports I could carry on a conversation with fans and not have to yell or get off the playing area. Fans react when they do not know the rules or they were not in position to make the call themselves. I really do not care what some guy behind the fence and is hundreds of feet away think. I also could give a damn about some kid that thinks a pitch that was right down the middle was clearly outside in his mind because of his stance in the box. Maybe you react to those things, I do not. I have had kids admit to lying when about what took place trying to get a call in their favor. If I am unsure, I can make that determination on my own.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I've worked some pretty big games and had my share of controversial calls. One thing always remains the same, you can't ignore the fact that our bad calls elicit far more noise than the close ones. I'm wise enough to know that my partners will always help and rely on me to help them, no matter how nasty the crowd gets. We've just been around long enough to know that some fans do know the difference!

I have worked some pretty big games too. I work two sports outside of baseball that can have literally thousands and a regular season contest. Not all games are like this, I know if I took that attitude in basketball I would never be able to work any varsity game period. Good Lord, the fans in basketball are not only on top of you, but you can smell what they had for lunch. Why would I care what some parent saw behind a screen, at a terrible angle and 100 feet away from what you just called? Fans only complement you when you make a call in their favor and boo when you go against them. Who cares what this jokers think.

Peace

[Sal Giaco]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I've worked some pretty big games ....

With your attitude, I don't know who gives you the assignments. I bet Bill Lopina and/or Ken Fox (Assigners in the Chicago area) don't give you games (or work with you for that fact).

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


As a specific example, lest there be confusion, I offer this: High school home team down by three and the bags are loaded in the seventh inning. Late afternoon and the sun is making it impossible to look into right center, sure enough the batter rockets one and my partner rules homerun on a clear ground rule double. the place went nuts when he made his signal. the visiting bench started pointing and objecting - the center fielder and right fielder were running in and the head coach is charging toward me at the dish. We had twenty people on the field! The fans were screaming - many for and some against. It just so happened that when I swept mt foot to clear the bat from the box, I got a great view and saw it bounce over. All of the runners touched and the head coach (the SOB saw it, too) was asking for the remaining baseballs. I informed him that it was going to be a double and his kids needed to get back on thrid and second. My partner was still already heading for the foul line and out the home team side for teh parking lot. (He would have been pulverized if the parking lot was on the other side.) I yelled for him to get over here and signalled "Time" and pointed for the runners to return. Sheepishly, the Home team coach asked "Did you get a real ggod look at it?" I just glared at him. My partner asked what was going on and I asked him if he saw the ball clear the fence on teh fly. He said, "No, but the player didn't put his hands up right away. Let's get out of here." I asked him if he couldn't here anyone yelling and he said - I'm not making this up - "My hearing aid isn't working well today." Stevie Wonder could have seen the kids jumping up and down and shouting about it bouncing over, but this guy figured that no one could have had a better view than he. He was wrong. The next batter jabbed one down the line for the winning runs to score, so the outcome was the same. I didn't big league him or rob him of his dignity. I did my job - without responding to the pleas of the players, coaches or fans.

I can appreciate you wanting to get the call right. However, as per rules in a Fed Game you can't over rule your partner. That being said under the circumstances you should have shared your information with him. If he agreed let him change the call. It's not up to you to change it. If not you really have no choice but to let it stand no matter how bad it looks. Incidently Stevie Wonder couldn't see the fans jumping up and down. Stevie is blind. Just kidding I got your point.

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco

With your attitude, I don't know who gives you the assignments. I bet Bill Lopina and/or Ken Fox (Assigners in the Chicago area) don't give you games (or work with you for that fact).

A new alpha male appears on the scene. I hear the sounds of a windbag shuffling his resume.

[Sal Giaco]

[/B][/QUOTE]"You've misinterpreted. In Sal's association, you need to be better than just capable, and at least somewhat humble, or you'll get no D1 games. He gets his share every year.

And this is in an association that not only has no shortage, but has guys who barely get a taste of JUCO because there's a labor surplus". [/B][/QUOTE]


Thanks Jim - Perhaps I came off a little harsh and offended some people. Thanks for clarifying my statement.

[ozzy6900]

Let me add (again) to this mess.

I am saying that we asked to huddle too much. I am saying that we should be doing our job. We should be making our own decisions and calls for the most part. Yes, there are those instances - the checked swing, the tag on the 1st or 3rd base lines, the conference for killing the game due to rain, at times base awards for one reason or another and of course the protest conference. Thee are few other times where we should be huddling up.

For example, last weekend, I was the BU and there were 3 pickoff attempts to 3rd base. The last one was an inside throw from the catcher so F5 made an outside tag on the runner. A quick glance to my PU proved to me that he wasn't even looking at the play so I banged R3 out based on the information that I had. F5 made it all look correct (the triumphant raise of the glove) and I was sure there was a tag. Some oo's & ah's and that's it. As I walked back to the "C" position, I ran the play over for the 4th time and I realized that I made the wrong call. Should I have huddled wtih my partner? Should I have dropped to my knees begging forgiveness from the baseball gods? NO! I made the call and I felt I had all the information (otherwise I would have asked for help before making the call). The call was wrong and I had to live with it. It's part of the game - the human element. An inning later, the manager came to me quietly and told me that there really was no tag. I just said to him that I if I had a chance to rule on that play again,the call might be different. He simply said "Well blue, that is just part of the game" and that was that. No screaming no yelling. Why? Because for the entire game I had done my job. I had good delay, took in all the information, was in position and rendered decision after decision.

Yes, if there is a question of rules application of the instances listed above, my partner and I need to get together. What I am against is that today, we seem to be expected to huddle for everything changing calls let and right. I am saying, do everything possible to get all the information to make the call. You as an umpire are responsible for that. You are not supposed to rely on a huddle to fix everything. And as in my case, if you make the wrong call, well, that is going to happen. When it happpens 3 or 4 times in a game, you need to concider getting some better training.

[Sal Giaco]

Mario,
You make some great points and I believe in what you are saying. It seems like umpiring is making a 180 degree turn from "live and die" with your calls to now what seems like the football approach to discussing calls on the field.

The recently adopted "get it right" philosophy has some merit but you have to know HOW and WHEN to use it. For the most part, I think it's evolved as a tool to apease(sp?) the players and managers. Perhaps, it also brings a more working relationship between managers/players and umpires which for a while anyways, was going in almost opposite directions.

Bottom line - work hard on the field to build your angles and get in the best position possible to make your calls. Also, know your responsibilites as well as your partners responsibilites for each play and only get help as a last resort. By doing this, it should limit the possibilities for managers requesting assistance from other crew members.

[WindyCityBlue]

Sal,
Go back and ask your assignor about my schedule. Bob Jenkins slipped a few days ago and tipped a couple of guys as to my identity. If you can't figure it out, then that says a great deal about your knowledge of the top guys in our area. It's kind of funny that the charade lasted this long, despite my efforts to throw some of you off with some disinformation.

Maybe now you'll find a reason to humble yourself and admit that you had no idea who you were talking to or about. I will be glad to stack my resumé up against you anytime. Even with a surplus of talent, my schedule is full. My assignors have long recognized my abilities and rewarded them accordingly. I bust my *** to make them look good and have never had a problem with any of them.

Bob Lyle is like the kid that throws a rock at a soldier with a gun. When he gets shot, no one asks why, they just wonder how come he was so dumb. Do a little homework and I think you'll find that not only have you been shot, but buried by this soldier. You asked for proof of just what I've done and what level of ball I work, it isn't that difficult to find out now.

[Sal Giaco]

Windy City Blue & Bob Lyle
I don't know who you guys are and you don't know me either. I'm not the name dropper and I'm not on this board to compare umpire resumes/schedules.

What I am here for is to learn some things about umpiring and hopefully share some experiences that may help a fellow brother out. I don't hide my identity nor do I try to figure out who other people are.

As I said before, feel free to contact me privately at [email protected] or you can even call me at 586-530-6795 and I'll be glad to talk experience with you. But to take other people's time with useless information is not very productive for this board.

[WindyCityBlue]

We have a winner...

The hypocrite of the year award goes to Sal Giaco!

You claim that you come here for learning. Yet, the first thing you did was to belittle me and rip my perceived experience on how I handle a coach chirping from the dugout.
You couldn't carry my gear bag.

Why would I want to waste my time talking to someone who can't read. I'be been on this Board for quite some time and most members know that I bring a pretty experienced perspective to the table. Since you don't want to read about resumes or what level of ball we work, I can't assume that you really do want to learn. We handle things differently here and not only can get away with it, but would be run out of town for doing it any other way.

Watch TV sometime, when a coach is chirping constantly, what happens? The mask comes off and someone heads to teh showers. It seems apparent that you have to explain your calls, especially since the dugouts are probably less than fifteen feet away. Up here, the coach has to yell to be heard. Most of us don't like it when they yell.

[Sal Giaco]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
"Why would I want to waste my time talking to someone who can't read. I'be been on this Board for quite some time..."

You're questioning my reading??? How about your spelling.
The bitterness is really coming through - stop while you're ahead... or I guess behind.