mental mistakes by umpires = ejections

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by JRutledge
That is the problem with many umpires. You are more concerned with getting rid of problems instead of dealing with those problems. If that is the only way you feel you can control a game, then do that. I just think that is the easy way out and does not advance umpiring. I have made mistakes in games and never had to eject a coach or they never complained. It is the way you carry yourself that also has to do with how a coach responds. Because if you have a certain demeanor, they might not even realize you made the mistake in the first place.

Peace

Exactly!

Some umpires have to eject because they do not have the "tools" (i.e social skills or game managment skills) to manipulate the game toward a peaceful continuation/conclusion.

Manipulation sounds like a harsh word, but there is such a thing as constructive manipulation. A good umpire is a psychiatrist, of sorts. He understands what motivates people and what they *really* want. A crafty umpire can often steer a potentially volatile situation into calm waters without necessarily having to resort to any ejections.

That is not to say that an ejection is not always appropriate. It may be. But some umpires are too quick with the trigger. Ejections are not always in the best interest of the game and they are not necessarily a means to get a game under control.

If an umpire lacks these people skills, he probably *should* eject - because there are few good options left.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
I am new to this forum but having coaches pick umpires sounds a little scary to me. In my association, we have four evaluations submitted for every conference weekend from:

1. Crew Chief
2. Home School
3. Away School
4. Independent Evaluator

Ofcourse the experience/knowlwdge level of each evaluator (as well as the view point) can vary. However, the Supervisor of Officials considers the source when reading the written reports and between the four of them, can decifer how well the officating was for that particular weekend.

There's no doubt that coaches may have their own motives in mind when selecting umpires (some crew chiefs may also have their own motives in mind when writting evaluations) but the bottom line is the Supervisor of Officials is the one who should ultimately decide what umpires are assisgned to what games.

Part of the problem with coaches/schools deciding umpires is "Black Balling" or "Red Lining". In the past, if a coach had a problem with an umpire, he would not allow that official to work for that school. Thanks to our Supervisor, that practice has been eliminated and schools no longer have that power.

Bottom line, find a honest, fair individual with great people skills to represent your organization and have that person assign umpires, not coaches. Just my opinion

Sal: The system works very well, I assure you. BOTH coaches have to agree, so that makes for give-and-take. I'll take Carl and you can have Mario as long as we agree Mario doesn't get the plate and Carl doesn't get the bases."

Besides, it's set up by the University Interscholastic League (orginally fromed to supervise debate competition in the early 1900s.

It's run by the most powerful men in the school system, the district superintendents.

Come to Texas. You'll like it.

[David B]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bfair

Originally posted by jumpmaster

And to David B. I'd say......I enjoyed calling with you at Arlington High although I doubt if you recall it....


Freix

Ah the good ole days. As much as I enjoy calling baseball now I still remember the times in Ft. Worth.

That was the most fun that I've ever had umpiring and where I earned my stripes (the hard way I should say).

Thanks to my pal Earl Bates who believed in me (God rest his soul now) and moved me to the top of the umpiring ranks even though I was just a young lad.

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally posted by David Emerling

Exactly!

Some umpires have to eject because they do not have the "tools" (i.e social skills or game managment skills) to manipulate the game toward a peaceful continuation/conclusion.

Manipulation sounds like a harsh word, but there is such a thing as constructive manipulation. A good umpire is a psychiatrist, of sorts. He understands what motivates people and what they *really* want. A crafty umpire can often steer a potentially volatile situation into calm waters without necessarily having to resort to any ejections.

That is not to say that an ejection is not always appropriate. It may be. But some umpires are too quick with the trigger. Ejections are not always in the best interest of the game and they are not necessarily a means to get a game under control.

If an umpire lacks these people skills, he probably *should* eject - because there are few good options left.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Some of us would rather not take the effort, Dave. Some of us expect that people will behave appropriately and they can go home if they don't. ESPECIALLY in summer baseball where it isn't the coach's JOB on the line -- those HS/College guys I will give a lot of rope to, but those guys are also the ones who will leave the field when you remind them that you're pretty close to ejecting them.

I've never had a HS or college coach tell me I "suck." I had two summer coaches say that this season (along with one tell me that I was an "idiot"). Why should I even TRY to deal with people like this? Goodbye, wait for your team at the bus or by the cars.

--Rich

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Some of us would rather not take the effort, Dave. Some of us expect that people will behave appropriately and they can go home if they don't. ESPECIALLY in summer baseball where it isn't the coach's JOB on the line -- those HS/College guys I will give a lot of rope to, but those guys are also the ones who will leave the field when you remind them that you're pretty close to ejecting them.

I've never had a HS or college coach tell me I "suck." I had two summer coaches say that this season (along with one tell me that I was an "idiot"). Why should I even TRY to deal with people like this? Goodbye, wait for your team at the bus or by the cars.

--Rich

Oh - I agree! If a coach gets personal with the umpire by calling him names or insulting him - HE'S GONE! No questions asked. This is especially true at the youth league level.

My only coach ejection of my umpiring career (I've ejected several players) was for the outburst, "You're clueless!"

Those are easy ejections, however. I don't think anybody would disagree that a coach who verbally insults an umpire on a personal level should be ejected.

To me, what gets a coach ejected has much more to do with the level of disruption he is interjecting into the game. I'll have great tolerance for whatever hair is up his butt as long as the game moves along smoothly.

I haven't had many ball & strike issues come up in my games. But the few times it has, I have always given a warning. It has always stopped.

The tone and demeanor an umpire uses has a way of either escalating or quelling some disputes. This is often an intrinsic part of the umpire's personality. Some people naturally exude an aura of arrogance and confrontation. I've seen many umpires like this over the years. They have more than their share of problems.

To be fair, there are coaches who have similar traits. They, too, have more than their share of confrontations.

The real fireworks begin when two arrogant and stubborn individuals meet on the same field, one being an umpire, the other being a coach - neither of whom have the tools or skills to avert Armageddon.

It's not always about making some kind of extreme effort to manipulate the game once the fireworks begin. More often than not, it is the ability to avoid the fireworks in the first place.

Knowing when to ignore comments.
Being thick skinned.
Body language.
Choosing your words carefully.
Knowing when to listen and when to take control.

These are all small elements of manipulating a game.

To those not inclined along these lines, this is all very repugnant. To them, this is just a bunch of mamsy-pamsy psycho-babble bullcrap that they don't engage in. To their way of thinking, it is simply more expedient to eject. There's no doubt ejections are more expedient - whether they are in the best interest of the current game is another issue. Some umpires don't make such discernments - nor care. Which is fine - as long as their method works for them. But such umpires should not be too critical of umpires who get similarly favorable results with different methods.

There are hard-nosed coaches who get good results from their team just as some easy-going coaches oftentimes get just as good results. Is one right and the other wrong? Only the results matter.

It's not so different with umpires.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Edited by David Emerling on Sep 5th, 2004 at 12:58 PM]

[NSump]

Originally posted by Carl Childress


The ball runs a lot faster than any player. I figure the odds are in my favor. Sometimes at the pre-game when I'm on the bases, and both coaches know me -- I probaobly called them in Mustang -- I'll hear: "Oh, you're on the bases? Nobody's safe at first today."

I don't mind that remark. [/B]

Carl:

FWIW, I teach the same thing, so it must be right.

[NSump]

Originally posted by chris s
I just read the original post. Just moved into nice new home.....finally got internet up and running.....SO, all I have to say is.....Do Not Fu&& up!! If a skippy wants to *****, hear him out(reasonably) then scoot him away.

I have screwed calls in my "younger years", been honest enough(sometimes) to tell skippy, "hey, I fu%%ed up"

Carl is correct in his ol saying, that ejections are usually caused by umps screw ups.........avoid it.

Chris:

Carl is NOT right for 90% of amateur ball. For college, HS and top level men's ball where you have smart coaches, this is true. For LL, other youth ball and summer leagues, ejections usually have nothing to due with booted calls.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by NSump :

Carl:

FWIW, I teach the same thing, so it must be right. [/B]

Jay Miner always said the biggest mistake amateur umpires made was failure to call outs at first.

[NSump]

[/B][/QUOTE]Jay Miner always said the biggest mistake amateur umpires made was failure to call outs at first. [/B][/QUOTE]

That is certainly not a problem I have

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by NSump

Chris:

Carl is NOT right for 90% of amateur ball. For college, HS and top level men's ball where you have smart coaches, this is true. For LL, other youth ball and summer leagues, ejections usually have nothing to due with booted calls.

Blaine: This is what you've never understood: I agree with what you just wrote. Whenever I say that an ejection generally follows a screw up by an umpire, I always except non-professional coaches. Summer ball? Everyone's read my motto: Eject early and often, and you'll solve a lot of your problems. Rich Fronheiser called plenty of summer ball this year -- and had 10 ejections, just 10 more than in the entire regular season.

Untrained coaches don't know when or what to argue. So out they come -- and out they go!

But a professional (someone who's paid to umpire: high school, college, even MSBL in my area) usually goes bananas only when he is certain the umpire was wrong.

The point: Learn the rules, get into position, take a little heat when you blow one -- and everybody goes home happy.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by Carl Childress
Blaine: This is what you've never understood: I agree with what you just wrote. Whenever I say that an ejection generally follows a screw up by an umpire, I always except non-professional coaches. Summer ball? Everyone's read my motto: Eject early and often, and you'll solve a lot of your problems.

One of your writers, wobster, appears to have overlooked that rather significant caveat in a recent article, when he said:

"I heard it said (and I believe it) that nine out of ten times, when a coach gets ejected, it is the umpire's fault."

... and failed to include the "summer ball" exception. I think he later allowed that he "heard it said" by you, at one of your clinics. Unfortunately, his misunderstanding of the complete lesson caused him some grief on the boards, and cost him some credibility with some of his readers.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

One of your writers, wobster, appears to have overlooked that rather significant caveat in a recent article, when he said:

"I heard it said (and I believe it) that nine out of ten times, when a coach gets ejected, it is the umpire's fault."

... and failed to include the "summer ball" exception. I think he later allowed that he "heard it said" by you, at one of your clinics. Unfortunately, his misunderstanding of the complete lesson caused him some grief on the boards, and cost him some credibility with some of his readers.

Once again, I take responsibility. The clinic was for umpires of USSSA 18u to 9u. All coaches in those leagues are volunteer, as they are where Chad umpires.

The entire context of the discussion of game control was: How does the umpire keep volunteer coaches off his back.

So when I read Chad saying that 90% of ejections result from umpire error, I simply extrapolated what I'd said onto it. I should have corrected it, which would have required but one word:

"I heard it said (and I believe it) that nine out of ten times, when a [professional] coach gets ejected, it is the umpire's fault."

Thanks.

[umpduck11]

word:

"I heard it said (and I believe it) that nine out of ten times, when a [professional] coach gets ejected, it is the umpire's fault."

Thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]


Does that include Bobby Cox ?????!!!!

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by umpduck11

word:

"I heard it said (and I believe it) that nine out of ten times, when a [professional] coach gets ejected, it is the umpire's fault."

Thanks.

Does that include Bobby Cox ?????!!!! [/B][/QUOTE]Well, if you count Lou Piniella, then perhaps it's 8 out of 10. (grin)