Runner Missing 1st base on a force play

[Gee]

Sorry K, Carter tried that above. It didn't work then and it won't work now as like I told Carter, your dealing in semantics and not baseball rules.

So you don't agree with my interpretation of (b) which was reinforced by by Nick Bremigan in a Referee article, and you don't agree that (d) was extended to all bases. You still believe and I'll quote you: "Failing to touch the bases "IN ORDER" happens the moment a runner misses a base."

Then you say, even though we are dealing with All the bases I should use 7.08(k) instead of 7.10(b). Sorry, can't do that. 7.08(k) is specific to the plate where 7.10(d) deals with all the bases since it was extended.


No matter which one you use, they both contradict you when you say a runner is guilty of MISSING the plate the moment he fails to touch it in passing. Under both rules the runner has to leave the immediate area of the plate before he is guilty of MISSING it and appealable. Just like (b) where the runner is not guilty of MISSING his previous base and appealable until he touches his advance base. Oh, I forgot, you don't accept that nor do you accept the extension of 7.10(d) Pick a winner. G.
















First off, please get your terms straight. The rule refers to touching the bases "IN ORDER". It mentions nothing of touching the bases "OUT OF ORDER". While this seems like a small point, it means a world of difference and it is what makes your argument fail.

If the BR touches 1st then misses second and goes halfway to third, he has not yet touched the bases "OUT OF ORDER" because he hasn't yet touched 3rd. Agreed.

However, the rule does not specify that the bases cannot be touched "OUT OF ORDER" is specifies that the bases must be touched "IN ORDER".

If the same BR touches 1st and then MISSES 2nd on his way to 3rd, he has failed to touch the bases "IN ORDER" specifically because he has missed a 2nd base.

A runner can fail to touch the bases "IN ORDER" by missing, in our example, 2nd base on his way to third.

Out of order can't really happen until an advance base is touched, I agree with that.

Failing to touch the bases "IN ORDER" happens the moment a runner misses a base. If a runner misses 2nd on his way to 3rd, he has failed to touch the bases in order, due to the missed base, and can be called out on appeal, according to rule 7.10(b) which could read "Any runner shall be called out on appeal, when with the ball in play, while returing to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before a missed base is tagged."

See the difference between "out of order" and "in order"?

And 7.08 (k) is the rule you probably should be quoting as dealing with the immediate area argument after missing home.

Originally posted by Gee
Mr K, I'll try this one more time.

If a runner TOUCHES first and then TOUCHES second and then misses third and goes half way to home he has TOUCHED first and second, that's all he has TOUCHED, he has not TOUCHED any bases after TOUCHING the first two in order therefore he has done nothing wrong.

Having done that, how can the runner possibly be guilty of TOUCHING bases out of order if he has only TOUCHED first and second, they are in perfect order?

Now, if the same runner TOUCHES first and then fails to TOUCH second in passing and then TOUCHES third he has now TOUCHED one and three but not two, therefore once he TOUCHES three he's guilty of TOUCHING the bases out of order and appealable.

If you only TOUCH #1 and then #2 you are in order. If you TOUCH #1 and then #3 you are out of order, simple as that.


There is absolutely nothing in 7.10(b) concerning a missed base until AFTER they have been TOUCHED out of order AND appealable so if you have only TOUCHED #one and #two there is no violation but if you do TOUCH one, the second you TOUCH three you are guilty of having TOUCHED the bases out of order and are appealable.

If you don't fully understand that, there is no sense in going any further because that is the basis for the extention of 7.10(d). Once you grasp that fact let me know and I will answer the rest of your questions. G
---------------------------------------------------


[Edited by Gee on Aug 16th, 2004 at 12:58 PM]

[/B][/QUOTE]