Balk??

[David B]

Originally posted by GarthB

Slow learners.

I know of umpires with less time in than that who are working D-1 and minor league ball. An umpire who still works like a novice after 5 years should come up with another hobby.

Or do you hold them back? Do the "good ol' boys" have a strangle hold on the good assignments?

[/B]

Not quite. No good ole boy network. But we have had an abundance of good umpires and since we have such a "baseball haven" its not like they aren't getting to work.

We have an extensive jv and junior high program with over 10 schools participating in just the junior high.

We also have the priviledge of having the state champions for the last two years in not just one division but in two divisions. So we have very good baseball for a little state.

We really are lucky.

But I do see a big change coming since we were really short on umpires this year. Next year we will be even shorter because I know of several veterans who are calling it quits.

On another topic I would NOT like to see a D1 official work with less than 5 years experience. Talk about feeding to the wolves. I've been there, done that and its not a cakewalk.

Speak of it I think I saw several this year at our local college - don't know where they're getting the D1 umpires now but not looking too good.

Thanks
David

[GarthB]

"On another topic I would NOT like to see a D1 official work with less than 5 years experience. Talk about feeding to the wolves. I've been there, done that and its not a cakewalk."

Obviously not everyone can learn and mature at the same rate. I know some umpires with 20 years experience who can't handle D-1.

However, I do know a couple who went to proschool after their first year of umpiring and with the next four years were working D-1 and working it very well. They worked hard at improving and went to three man and other NCAA oriented camps every winter.

I know of another umpire, a close friend, who, when he decided he wanted to become an umpire, attended Evans school before ever working a game. That was just two years ago and now he is an excellent Varsity umpire. He'll be attending Tom Hiler's three man camp this winter and I'll wager by his 5th year in umpiring he'll be working D-1 games.

After the third year, it isn't time in service that makes the umpire, it is the effort, the ability to learn and improve and the level of maturity.

Making every umpire wait 5 years to get a chance at varsity is a waste of talent and opportunity.

[David B]

Originally posted by GarthB
"On another topic I would NOT like to see a D1 official work with less than 5 years experience. Talk about feeding to the wolves. I've been there, done that and its not a cakewalk."

Obviously not everyone can learn and mature at the same rate. I know some umpires with 20 years experience who can't handle D-1.

However, I do know a couple who went to proschool after their first year of umpiring and with the next four years were working D-1 and working it very well. They worked hard at improving and went to three man and other NCAA oriented camps every winter.

I know of another umpire, a close friend, who, when he decided he wanted to become an umpire, attended Evans school before ever working a game. That was just two years ago and now he is an excellent Varsity umpire. He'll be attending Tom Hiler's three man camp this winter and I'll wager by his 5th year in umpiring he'll be working D-1 games.

After the third year, it isn't time in service that makes the umpire, it is the effort, the ability to learn and improve and the level of maturity.

Making every umpire wait 5 years to get a chance at varsity is a waste of talent and opportunity.

I understand what you are saying and I agree but I also disagree.

He's still an umpire with 3-5 years of experience I don't care how many camps he's gone to. And that will get you in trouble in D1 ball.

Camps are good but they are also overrated. You have it right 100% on the hard work part though.

I did the camp thing when I was young, and I worked hard and I made it big time but I was also working around 300 games a year in a metroplex Dallas/Ft. Worth.

And we had college leagues that played all summer so you could get really good experience year round. That is not available in many areas.

There is such a shortage of officials now that camps are used for officiating groups to grap "potential" umpires and they are training them as they go.

But, even attending camps and going to school doesn't give you the game experience and the know how to deal with coaches at that level. But then around here D1 is the SEC and then Conference USA. That's big time baseball. And its played year round.

I know that different in other parts of the USA.

I don't mean to beleaguer (sp) the point, but I still wouldn't want to work a conference D1 game with a guy with only 3 years under his belt.

Maybe non-conference but even then I would feel like "big brother".

Thanks
David

[GarthB]

"I understand what you are saying and I agree but I also disagree.

He's still an umpire with 3-5 years of experience I don't care how many camps he's gone to. And that will get you in trouble in D1 ball.

Camps are good but they are also overrated. You have it right 100% on the hard work part though.

I did the camp thing when I was young, and I worked hard and I made it big time but I was also working around 300 games a year in a metroplex Dallas/Ft. Worth.

And we had college leagues that played all summer so you could get really good experience year round. That is not available in many areas.

There is such a shortage of officials now that camps are used for officiating groups to grap "potential" umpires and they are training them as they go.

But, even attending camps and going to school doesn't give you the game experience and the know how to deal with coaches at that level. But then around here D1 is the SEC and then Conference USA. That's big time baseball. And its played year round.

I know that different in other parts of the USA.

I don't mean to beleaguer (sp) the point, but I still wouldn't want to work a conference D1 game with a guy with only 3 years under his belt.

Maybe non-conference but even then I would feel like "big brother".

Thanks
David

Well obviously I've made some progress. At first you said you wouldn't want to see an umpire with 5 years experience working D-1, now you say 3 years.

If you read my posts completely, you will note that I do not conclude that time is service is the primary factor. And it is not. I know umpires with five years service that have worked 150 games in total. I know others that have five years service that have 750 games in total.

I know some umpires with 5 years service that are immature coach baiters and I know some with five years service that are as mature as 25 year veterans.

Like I said, it isn't they years. It is the skill, the maturity and the ability to learn....

And I wasn't talking about garden variety camps. I'm talking camps put on by D-1 conference assignors in which they look for new umpires.

If these guys with five years experience can make D-1 assignors happy, why should you be worried?

You can't lump all umpires together. I haven't done that. These guys are special. They have the skill to succeed and the willingness, even eagerness, to study and work hard to progress.

On the other hand, your initial comment: "We still consider 4-5 years experience a novice (umpire in training) They might get a few varsity games, but probably not." does lump them all together. I think you and your association are making a big mistake by doing so.


[Edited by GarthB on Jul 21st, 2004 at 06:16 PM]

[Tim C]

Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.

I had NEVER worked a JV game until this season. My first game ever was the plate of two of Oregon's largest varsity high school teams.

Lumping people of any type is dangerous.

I have seen at least four guys graduate from umpire school that could have went directly to major D-1 ball . . . and only one of them had worked ANY type baseball . . . 4 out of 400 is 1% . . . they still could do it.

Tee

[Atl Blue]

Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.

Then what has happened to him in the mean time? Players and coaches rated him one of the worst umps in MLB last year, along with Bruce Froeming, who may be the senior member of the group now.

Some umps (certainly not all) reach a certain level, get fat and happy (Froeming qualifies on one of those, certainly not the other), and let the skills deteriorate. Umpiring is a JOB, and it takes constant training and diligence. The day you think you have it down is the day you are done.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Atl Blue
Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.

Then what has happened to him in the mean time? Players and coaches rated him one of the worst umps in MLB last year, along with Bruce Froeming, who may be the senior member of the group now.

Some umps (certainly not all) reach a certain level, get fat and happy (Froeming qualifies on one of those, certainly not the other), and let the skills deteriorate. Umpiring is a JOB, and it takes constant training and diligence. The day you think you have it down is the day you are done.

Players and coaches? Who CARES?

How do other UMPIRES rate them?

--Rich

[David B]

Originally posted by Tim C
Joe Brinkman (and John McSherry -RIP) said that the DAY Joe West graduated from umpire school he could have worked in the Major Leagues.

Tee

You might be right, they said he could have.

But, he didn't. He had to put in the time in minor league and then work his way up to major league.

There are a lot of D1 guys out there who probably shouldn't be but many of them are having to work their way through.

I remember having to do that and it was so frustrating.

And then you have to deal with the coaches so much in D1, they have way too much influence over who works their games.

Of course, I haven't worked college since the early 90's so things may be different, but I would bet they haven't changed a bit.

Coaches at that level want to have some pull with the umpires.

Speaking of umpires, I like Brinkman. He doesnt' put up with anything at all. Joe West, is well known, but doesn't get too much of the acolades that are so prevalent today.

Thanks
David

[Atl Blue]

But, he makes a great vest!

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Atl Blue
But, he makes a great vest!

As the proud owner of an orginal West Vest produced by Douglas, and both a new WestVest Gold and WestVest Platinum, I would (obviously) agree.