Lets hear your opinions

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by brunclikk

My question to you all is, do you feel that experience in playing the game should be a pre-requisite to officiating the game? If not a pre-requisite do you feel it makes a better umpire or is umping just knowing the rules and officiating a lot whether you've played or not? I was just interested in what you guys think, i have no real opinion on this matter. If it's not too much trouble in responding could you please tell if you yourself have played before as well?

I played at the HS level. IMO, what has aided me most in umpiring since I played the game is when we as umpires have to judge INTENT.

For example; on thrown balls, in order for interference to be called, we have to judge whether or not the act was intentional or not. IMO, this is where having played the game helps. It also helps in the area of game management, especially dealing with rival teams.

If you played HS ball, we all had those RIVAL games where emotions were high and we did not like each other. As an umpire you have to be aware of that otherwise the game could turn out of control in a hurry.

Therefore, in Summary I would not say it is NOT a Pre-requisite, but it helps in certain instances.

Pete Booth

[WindyCityBlue]

Cincy game a couple weeks ago...

Bags loaded and the foul ball is hit along the first baseline, going out and away. As they were playing a right handed, pull hitter, the right fielder had a lot of ground to cover and the first baseman was fighting a losing battle but running hard. Unbelievably, he made the catch going to the stands. There was no way they would have a play at home and his closest bag was going to be second. The first baseman realized the wheels on first, fired a two bounce strike to third and almost got that guy. They had to call "time" to go get the piano the guy dropped, but that's a foul ball tag up that can happen at almost any level.

[DG]

It doesn't have to be a foul ball. Right fielder going hard to his left catches one on the run in the deep right corner in fair territory, and then falls down, and slides about 10 feet. If runners on 1st and 2nd are tagging the one on 2nd will surely make it to 3rd, and the one on 1st will make it to 2B if he has any speed at all.

[sir_eldren]

I feel that playing or not playing has no effect on whether you'll be a good official. Playing or coaching certainly has an effect on how well you'll learn to read plays and anticipate action, but it doesn't help you learn the position, learn nit-picky rules (as any official who's explained rules to a coach knows), or how to be impartial.

I started officiating hockey with experience playing, watching, and loving the game. I knew a lot of things about the sport, but the stuff I didn't know was how to be a hockey referee. I also didn't have a clear idea of icing or how offsides was called. Worst of all, I had no real idea when a penalty shot was called for (except in the most obvious of places). Refereeing the game has brought me closer to the game and given me a far greater appreciation for it.

I began officiating football after having been a fan since I was three years old. I knew a lot of terminology and understood a lot of the strategy of the game and the different strategies employed at the pro level compared to high school ball. I never played the sport, although I should have. I began officiating it and learned that I had no real idea how to officiate aside from spotting the ball and calling a few of the simpler penalties. I also had no clue that you could never have more than 4 backs and had no clue how to determine who was an eligible receiver. I now watch a football game and see these things and understand much, much more than I did just a couple of years ago.

And then there's baseball. I've always had that basic American understanding of the game: ball/strike, fair/foul, safe/out, the strike zone, and "Swing batta!" But aside from that, I had no idea of any strategies in the game. I was never a big baseball fan and never played organized ball. All of my experience was playing softball in PE, and when the teacher wasn't looking we would start to steal bases and throw overhand. I had no idea what went into umpiring and how tough the job would actually be. I had no clue what kind of people played the game or what was acceptable conduct on the field. Unlike hockey or football where a referee has jurisdiction of not only the players and coaches, but anybody in the stands too, a baseball umpire's ability to toss somebody ends at the fence on the field (unless otherwise granted by the league/organization). I had no clue what was proper timing in the sport. But I've learned, and I've learned in such a way that I have no desire to play the sport like I had a year ago (although if offered, I'd happily play the outfield or third base). I've learned how to "play" the game as an umpire, and in the last two years I've figured out the strategies of the game and have learned what to anticipate in many situations. While I have a lot of improving to still do, I've come quite a long way from my first game where I saw such a close play at 1B that I stared for about 10 seconds before pointing to my partner behind the plate! That was a learning experience!! ha ha ha!

Anybody can learn anything. All it takes the the drive and the ability to learn it. Prior experience is not necessary if the student has the aptitude to excel.

-Craig

[DFM7]

All runners should tag up on an obvious foul fly.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by DG
It doesn't have to be a foul ball. Right fielder going hard to his left catches one on the run in the deep right corner in fair territory, and then falls down, and slides about 10 feet. If runners on 1st and 2nd are tagging the one on 2nd will surely make it to 3rd, and the one on 1st will make it to 2B if he has any speed at all.

That's not the point. The point was there is absolutely no reason to lead off on a foul fly. The runners can't run if it isn't caught. They should be tagged up ready to go if it is caught.

[Rich]

Originally posted by DG
It doesn't have to be a foul ball. Right fielder going hard to his left catches one on the run in the deep right corner in fair territory, and then falls down, and slides about 10 feet. If runners on 1st and 2nd are tagging the one on 2nd will surely make it to 3rd, and the one on 1st will make it to 2B if he has any speed at all.

But the runners in this situation will not be on the base tagging as the ball is touched -- THAT was the question.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

Rich;

Shame on you. And you are a coach. The correct procedure on an infield fly is to lead off just enough to beat the throw back to your base after the catch. In other words, on an infield fly to deep short, R1 is probably going a third of the way to second.

The situation that I am thinking about can have runners at any bases in all possible combinations. No one has the answer yet. I am going out for lunch and will answer it when I get back.

Peter

Not where I coach. You are not going to attempt to advance on an IFF at any level where the players shave, even if the ball is dropped or allowed to fall. Therefore there is no need to get a lead.

[Rich Ives]

Pray tell "foul ball" folks, just how does the runner know if it's going to be foul or not? In my book, anything deep enough to advance on could be fair in most parks, and the runner should treat it like any other deep fly. Be ready to advance. Be able to retreat.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Pray tell "foul ball" folks, just how does the runner know if it's going to be foul or not? In my book, anything deep enough to advance on could be fair in most parks, and the runner should treat it like any other deep fly. Be ready to advance. Be able to retreat.

There are quite a few parks with ample foul ground so that the ball is obviously foul but still in play.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Pray tell "foul ball" folks, just how does the runner know if it's going to be foul or not? In my book, anything deep enough to advance on could be fair in most parks, and the runner should treat it like any other deep fly. Be ready to advance. Be able to retreat.

Sigh.

Sounds like the typical coach who doesn't like the answer...."well how about this? How about that? What if...? In my opinion....."

Read the question as posed. The answer is as given. It's really not that hard.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by GarthB

Sigh.

Sounds like the typical coach who doesn't like the answer...."well how about this? How about that? What if...? In my opinion....."

Read the question as posed. The answer is as given. It's really not that hard.

The question as posed was:

"Normally on a fly ball to the outfield with less than two outs, the runner at 1st (and perhaps 2nd) go halfway to the next base to see if the ball will be caught. The runner at third almost always tags up and is ready to go.

"With less than two outs, name a situation where the runners at all bases always tag up and are ready to go?"

And while there may be many fields with ample foul ground, ther are also many without.

Medium depth fly ball down the LF line, near the line. R1 & R3. R1 knows he can't make second on a tagup, but wants to be able to get a head start if it isn't caught. So he goes part way. Ball ends up a caught foul - retreat. Ball fair/caught - retreat. Ball foul - dead - no problem. Ball drops fair - play on and run (may get a shot at 3B on a throw home or a misplay that he could not have had if he tagged up.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives

The question as posed was:

"Normally on a fly ball to the outfield with less than two outs, the runner at 1st (and perhaps 2nd) go halfway to the next base to see if the ball will be caught. The runner at third almost always tags up and is ready to go.

"With less than two outs, name a situation where the runners at all bases always tag up and are ready to go?"

And while there may be many fields with ample foul ground, ther are also many without.

Medium depth fly ball down the LF line, near the line. R1 & R3. R1 knows he can't make second on a tagup, but wants to be able to get a head start if it isn't caught. So he goes part way. Ball ends up a caught foul - retreat. Ball fair/caught - retreat. Ball foul - dead - no problem. Ball drops fair - play on and run (may get a shot at 3B on a throw home or a misplay that he could not have had if he tagged up.

Again, a coach who doesn't like the answer...

Perhaps you were confused by the usage of the term "foul ball" and not a "possible" foul ball.

Time to move on coach.

[Mike Ricketts]

Now about being able to predict what the players will have been coached to do in any given situation, Peter, you were saying . . . ?

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Mike Ricketts
Now about being able to predict what the players will have been coached to do in any given situation, Peter, you were saying . . . ?

Peter pretty much works only higher level games that have coaches who understand the game and who coach their players to understand and react properly to situations.

The flaw in his theory is that many umpires are not so blessed. They have to work with coaches who do not understand the game as well. As surprising as it seems this thread shows that there are some coaches who wouldn't be surprised if their baserunners took a lead on a foul fly ball.

Amazing.