Hand part of the bat?

[brunclikk]

I've heard two things from fellow ballplayers and coaches my whole life but i never took the time to actually look it up:
1. Is the hand actually part of the bat? If you get hit on the hand is the ball in play?

2. If a batter squares to bunt and the pitch is thrown at him and strikes him but he doesn't pull the bat back, is it a strike? Does it make a difference whether he was still trying to bunt it or if he was just trying to get out of the way and forgot to pull the bat back?

[tornado]

1. NO! NO! (dead ball-assuming "he" is the batter)

2. No! He must offer at the pitch, merely holding the bat out isn't offering.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by brunclikk
I've heard two things from fellow ballplayers and coaches my whole life but i never took the time to actually look it up:
1. Is the hand actually part of the bat? If you get hit on the hand is the ball in play?

2. If a batter squares to bunt and the pitch is thrown at him and strikes him but he doesn't pull the bat back, is it a strike? Does it make a difference whether he was still trying to bunt it or if he was just trying to get out of the way and forgot to pull the bat back?

1. Have you ever gone to the sporting goods store and seen any hands on the bats for sale? It is ALWAYS a DEAD BALL when you get hit on ANY part of your body by a pitch. (Hint)The last I checked the hands were part of the body.

Just in case you missed that, it is ALWAYS a dead ball when any part of your body gets hit by a pitch. Always ALWAYS,
A L W A Y S.

2. A strike is determined upon wether OR NOT the batter made an ATTEMPT to bunt the ball. Holding the bat out there means NONTHING. Did the batter attempt to hit the ball. This applies wether or NOT the batter gets hit with a pitch. In which case the BALL IS DEAD, ALWAYS. And a strike is assessed IF the batter attempted to hit the ball.

[brunclikk]

ok, sorry, but i have one more question, if a batter swings at an inside, pitch, say a slider, and it moves more than he thought and hits him on the hands as he's swinging, i understand that this is probably a dead ball, but is the call strike, ball, take your base?

[tornado]

If he's swinging, it's a STRIKE and a dead ball.
Always. ALWAYS. A L W A Y S! (jicecone, 2004)

[brunclikk]

thank you very much, could someone tell me exactly what rule i can cite when i'm explaining this to teammates so i can show them they're wrong, both for the hand not being part of the bat and the rule where you have to actually try to bunt the ball?

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by brunclikk
thank you very much, could someone tell me exactly what rule i can cite when i'm explaining this to teammates so i can show them they're wrong, both for the hand not being part of the bat and the rule where you have to actually try to bunt the ball?

Hand Part of Bat.

1. Take a bat, hold it at arm's length and let it fall to the ground. What ever hits the ground is part of the bat.

2. "Okay coach, the hands are part of the bat. Makle sure you have your players leave their hands in the dugout when they are on defense!"

I have been known to use one or both of these to explain to coaches during a game that the hands are not part of the bat. There is no rule to show this, it is just using the God given gray matter that is located 3 feet above everyone's butt! :>)

[brunclikk]

great way of putting it, do you mind if i use those sayings?

[jicecone]

Originally posted by brunclikk
thank you very much, could someone tell me exactly what rule i can cite when i'm explaining this to teammates so i can show them they're wrong, both for the hand not being part of the bat and the rule where you have to actually try to bunt the ball?

OBR 6.08 "The batter becomes a runner an is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when-...

b.He is TOUCHED by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless(1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball;

If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. if the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched.

APPROVED RULING: When the batteris touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle him to first base, the ball is daed and no runner may advance."

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tornado
If he's swinging, it's a STRIKE and a dead ball.
Always. ALWAYS. A L W A Y S! (jicecone, 2004)

Hmm...

F1 balks, but continues with the pitch. B1 swings at the pitch, but misses it and the pitch hits him.

I don't think it's a STRIKE and a dead ball -- Always, ALWAYS. A L W A Y S!

[LMan]

...but....are the hands part of the bat?

[jicecone]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Hmm...

F1 balks, but continues with the pitch. B1 swings at the pitch, but misses it and the pitch hits him.

I don't think it's a STRIKE and a dead ball -- Always, ALWAYS. A L W A Y S!

Interesting point,

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: I read what it says , but is the ball really delayed dead for "a hit batter". And isn't this in conflict with 6.08b. Please clarify.

[DG]

Originally posted by jicecone

Interesting point,

OBR 8.05 PENALTY: I read what it says , but is the ball really delayed dead for "a hit batter". And isn't this in conflict with 6.08b. Please clarify.

6.08b does not apply to pitch that is swung at. A balk, is a delayed dead ball, in OBR if the PU can't react fast enough to get the pitcher not to throw the ball. If he throws and hits the batter while swinging it's a dead ball, but not a strike. BR is sent to 1B. If a pitched ball hits a batter it's a dead ball.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by DG

6.08b does not apply to pitch that is swung at. A balk, is a delayed dead ball, in OBR if the PU can't react fast enough to get the pitcher not to throw the ball. If he throws and hits the batter while swinging it's a dead ball, but not a strike. BR is sent to 1B. If a pitched ball hits a batter it's a dead ball.

DG, your right about 6.08b not being applicable and that a balk is a delayed dead ball in OBR, but I believe what Bob was pointing out was in reference to 8.05, where a "hit batter" is awarded first without reference to the balk. It implies that the ball is not dead. Which was oppisite of what I was saying that it is ALWAYS DEAD. It still a little confusing to me.

[DG]

Originally posted by jicecone

DG, your right about 6.08b not being applicable and that a balk is a delayed dead ball in OBR, but I believe what Bob was pointing out was in reference to 8.05, where a "hit batter" is awarded first without reference to the balk. It implies that the ball is not dead. Which was oppisite of what I was saying that it is ALWAYS DEAD. It still a little confusing to me.

Bob said "I don't think it's a STRIKE and a dead ball -- Always, ALWAYS" I believe he was meaning that a batter hit by pitch is a dead ball, but when the batter is swinging it's not always a strike, such as the case of a balk. The 6.05 PENALTY says "The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls a hit batter, or otherwise, and all runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds wihout reference to the balk". If each runner, and the batter advance one base then the balk is ignored, but the ball is still dead.

When a pitch hits the batter, who is, or is not swinging, the ball is dead, but when swinging it is not always a strike, such as in the case of a balk. I think that was Bob's point. I can not imagine that we would allow any pitch that hit a batter to remain alive.