Is ball "dead" after 3 outs... Situation

[Patrick Szalapski]

Originally posted by BJ Moose
Is ball "dead" after 3rd out of a half inning?
Situation:
R1... 2 outs. Batter hits GAPPER. R1 rounds 3rd, heads home, relay throw to catcher, a SLIDE, a SWIPE TAG attempt, cloud of dust... NO SIGNAL. (Assume: missed tag, missed plate). R1 gets up, moves towards dugout, F2 gets up with ball, sees ump and R1 and takes a step toward R1. Just now F2 notices BATTER-RUNNER take wide turn at third. Catcher throws to third and tag is made on B-R diving into third for THIRD OUT!

b)... Out call at 3rd comes JUST PRIOR to R1 returning and touching home.
Do WE allow this retouch... or is the BALL dead? Do we allow a "4th out appeal?" Does catcher have to go get the ball, and make the appeal?

This situation is almost exactly the same as NAPBL 3.4, example 1. The number of outs really doesn't matter.

The ball is not dead--the ball is never dead just because a third out is recorded. I'd give you a reference, but there is none; this is an interpretation of omission--that is, nowhere in the OBR does it state that the ball is dead on the third out.

The question then becomes, what if the runner goes to retouch after the third out and the defense tries to tag him out? If the ball had stayed near the plate, we wouldn't have any problems, because the out just becomes a normal out (NAPBL 3.3). But if we allow the runner to retouch, as we always must, we then create a situation where the fielders are playing for a normal tag out with three outs already! (an aside: J/R clarifies that "fourth out plays" may be non-appeal plays (J/R 10-II, pg 59), but I don't think this is one of them.) Something is wrong because once the runner attempts to regain home plate, he no longer has "reached" home plate and must be tagged out under the normal tag-out rule (OBR 7.08c). But there's three outs, so this is all ridiculous. This leads us to say that the run does NOT score, without the need for an appeal. But does this then imply:

1) If this runner tries to regain and touch home, he is considered never to have scored. (NAPBL 3.3) He cannot score now because there are three outs.
2) If this runner does not try to regain and touch home, he DID reach home and scores unless an appeal is upheld (NAPBL 3.3).

This is ridiculous! We are penalizing a runner for trying to correct his mistake! I don't see any way out of this. Help!

P-Sz

[Edited by Patrick Szalapski on Jan 13th, 2001 at 12:42 PM]