I could have sworn this was argued on another board (maybe McGriffs?) The concensus was that 4th outs can ONLY come during an appeal. I think that Warren's response can sum this all up:
Posted by Warren Willson on January 02, 2001 at 23:21:59:
In Reply to: Re: Fourth out - appeal? posted by Hayes Davis on January 02, 2001 at 22:03:57:
: : There was a GREAT question over on the softball board that I would like see discussed here under OBR.
: : Mike Rowe wrote:
: : R2 and R3 on second and third base respectively, two outs.
: : Batter strikes out, but the ball gets by F2. R3 scores, but R2 is tagged out at the plate. BR failed to run to 1B. After tagging R2
: : out, the catcher throws to 1B for the fourth out.
: : Does R3's run count?
: : The problem here seems to stem from the idea that the the inning conclude when the 3rd out was registered at the plate. And, it seems, the rules only allow for an advantageous fourth out on an appeal. Is it a proper appeal to say that the BR didn't advance to first?
: +++++
: Dave,
: I don't know if this helps or not but here's an opinion from Jaksa/Roder that is similar.
: Hayes
: The third out of an inning does not prevent the defense from getting a fourth out, an out that is advantageous in that it takes away an apparent run. Such advantageous fourth out supersedes the former third out and becomes, for all purposes, the third out.
: EXAMPLE:
: Not an appeal: Bases loaded, two outs. The batter singles and R2 is thrown out at home for the third out. The batter has been injured and is unable to advance to first, prompting the defense to throw to first against him. This is an advantageous fourth out and supersedes the former third out, and no run can score.
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Well, Hayes, I guess you've just found another example of why the NAPBL/PBUC says Jaksa/Roder is definitely NOT to be used for official interpretations. My understanding is they feel J/R is so full of errors that it simply can't be relied upon in that way, and this doosey just proves the point.
What is proposed here isn't an "apparent" 4th out, it's an ACTUAL 4th out and definitely NOT supported by the rules. Once the 3rd out is made the inning is over and runners can't score, and no more put outs can be made except on appeal [see OBR 2.00, 4.09(a), 5.07 and 7.10 Note] The ONLY place in the rule book where an advantageous 4th out is ever mentioned and considered is in OBR 7.10, which deals solely with APPEALS!
Man, this thread just gets weirder and weirder!
Cheers.
http://www.gmcgriff.com/refonline/ww...ages/3354.html