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Let's see.
BR passes by 1st on a base hit to F6. No mention of BR attempting to advance to 2nd. R1 returns to 1st in a force situation. He then goes past 1st into foul ground and then returns to 1st base. I've got BR legally acquiring 1st base with no attempt to advance. Therefore he did not pass previous runner. BR safe. R1 has no legal right to 1st base and is tagged in a force situation prior to reaching his next base. R1 out. Luciano's law: Always penalize the person/team that caused the problem. |
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Re: Dead on...
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Alan Roper Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here - CPT John Parker, April 19, 1775, Lexington, Mass |
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Re: Re: Dead on...
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---No, only one player is entitled to the "safe zone of the base". Someone f*d up and that guy is at fault. If you can't determine which player is out, you shouldn't be taking the check. It does not matter who gets tagged first. Only the improper runner is out, unless the other guy steps off the base.---
Windy: Back to the other issue. I agree, only one player is entitled to the "safe zone of the base". And you are correct, someone f*d up. But it DOES matter who gets tagged first. You say, "only the improper runner is out", to which I say, "not necessarily true and in any case, in the above scenario, which one is improper"? You say don't take the check if you don't know. OK, I'll buy that. But you never answered the question, so how are you taking the check? And Luciano's books were funny. Unfortunately, the biggest joke was that he was ever an umpire to begin with. One of the wrost rated officials in the history of professional sports. |
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It does matter if you are stepping on the base to get a force out. R1, ground ball to F3, and R1 runs back and stands on first. R1 does not legally occupy the base. So he can be tagged out. Then if F3 steps on first, the BR is out too. But if F3 steps on first base first, then the BR is put out, and R1 leaglly occupies first base. Then he can not be put out while touching the base. |
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In Stone
woolnojg and a couple of others already did. I didn't want to waste bandwidth by repeating what was obvious.
If two runners are standing on the same base, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH IS TAGGED FIRST, everyone here is telling you that. The runner that caused the problem - the guy returning to a bag he is not entitled to, is out. the batter safely secured first, even if he rounded it, the other yutz is not allowed to come back! A lot of inexperienced coaches want their player to tag the fastest guy...a lot of inexperienced umpires buy that argument. |
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In the two guys standing on first argument, I agree, it does not make any difference. I am refering to the situation I posted earlier to prove that the "order of tag crap" does make a difference!
to repeat: Bases loaded, no one out. Fly ball to LF, but R3 takes off on contact. F7 drops the ball, but R3 does not realize this and comes back to 3B. R2 knows he was forced, so he has run to 3B. R1, with his head down and not paying attention to his coaches or his teammates, rounds 2B and comes into 3B. No runner has passed another, but all three are standing on 3B. The ball comes to a very confused F5. F5, being a good baseball player, starts tagging runners. Who is out? Is it absurd? Of course it is! But it is a good "test" question that proves that the "order of tag crap" does make a difference. OK, you want to earn the check. Who is out? |
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Thank you. You just proved the point that the "order of the tag crap" is important in determining WHO is out.
Order of tag: R3, R2, R1 - R3 and R1 out R3, R1, R2 - R3 and R1 out R2, R3, R1 - R3 and R1 out R2, R1, R3 - R3 and R1 out R1, R3, R2 - R2 and R1 out R1, R2, R3 - R2 and R1 out |
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Okay, believe that if you want.
The runner on thrid will always be out for returning to the base he is no longer entitled to occupy. He must advance and has no right to cause another runner to be put out.As the thread stated, they are all standing on the same (3rd base). How can you call the runner from second out on a force, when he has legally advanced? What was the force, since he is standing on the bag? The bonehead from first is another casualty, since he is attempting to run his teammate off of a legally and safely secured base. Let them tag each guy and then you explain what your theory is. I prefer to let the rules do the talking. |
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That's my point. The guys that f-d up are the runner who didn't vacate third and the runner from first that is trying to occupy a base that is already legally and safely occupied. If our brother from Atl calls R2 (who has advanced to third) out for any reason other than he stepped off the base and was tagged, he is incorrect. The other two are dead. No matter what order!
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