Interesting game...

[bigwes68]

Wasn't umpiring this game, I was in the stands for this one. Quite interesting, though....

Babe Ruth district tournament, 15-and-under (although most of the players were 13 or 14). I knew we were in trouble when the umpires showed up in button-up, light blue shirts with no patches or anything (which I haven't seen worn in several years). I had worked with one of the guys before and knew he was lousy; the other one I had never seen before.

Anyway, end of the top of the second, player from visiting team strikes out swinging. He casually tosses his bat toward the dugout and starts to walk to his position. PU yells, "You're out of here!" No warning, nothing. Manager comes out to ask why he got tossed. PU says he threw the bat. Manager asks why he didn't get a warning. PU keeps saying, "I don't care, he's gone." Manager tells PU he was wrong for tossing him without a warning. PU says, "OK, you're gone too."

Manager then leaves and takes a seat in the stands (permitted by OBR 4.07). Middle of the next inning, PU turns around and tells ejected manager, "If you don't leave the park, I'm going to forfeit the game." Someone tells the PU that the rulebook says that he can take a seat in the grandstand after being ejected. He says, "I don't care what the rulebook says. And if you don't shut up, I'm gonna throw you out too."

Next inning: PU calls home manager and visiting "acting" manager, tells them that if the kids don't hustle on and off the field, he's going to throw them out, too.

4th inning: Home batter is hit by pitch, throws his bat high in the air toward his dugout, goes to first. Visiting bench and fans go ballistic, and finally the umpire relents and throws him out, too.

Also in this game: At least eight balks were called (I counted). He called four more in the next game. Of the 13 ways to balk listed under OBR 8.05, he called 6 of them....plus one that wasn't even listed. Then I saw a big one that he didn't call. They missed a big interference call at 2B, too (that would have gone against my team had they made the correct call).

Bottom line: the guy wasn't anywhere close to being certified, he was an assistant coach for a local high school team that umpires summer ball. He tried to call the game by FED rules, which sometimes don't apply to OBR. And it was a district tournament.

Granted, the team I was there watching probably wouldn't have won anyway. But having their best hitter for the first game might have made a difference.

[jumpmaster]

I would contact my district commissioner and discuss with him. I would also contact the state commissioner.

Interesting that the umpires weren't certified. It is a requirement to work post-season tournaments here in Arkansas. Of course, our district commissioner is a past-president of our umpires association and the state commissioner has ties to us as well.

[bigwes68]

I did talk to the area commissioner today. He said that at the district level, the league president could get whoever they wanted (read: major home field advantage). Once it gets to the Area level, he assigns umpires himself. I have an Area tournament that starts Friday. Problem we have is that there aren't that many certified Babe Ruth umpires in northwest Tennessee. There are lots of certified high school guys, but most of them have the big head and won't do baseball for less than high school pay ($55/game).

Next time we host a tournament, we should get a couple of the players' parents to call the game and have them wear team colors while doing it. Or get the guy that called a few (a VERY few) games here this year that just KNEW a batted ball was foul when it hit home plate "because one of the coaches told me so." Or the guy that smoked while in the field. Or the guy that wore NO plate gear except a mask.

[DG]

A long time ago, I was a Babe Ruth District Commissioner for several years. Back then, all umpires for District had to be Babe Ruth certified umpires. To work a State you had to be certified and previously worked a Regional, you had to be certified and previously worked a State. To work a World Series you had to be certified and previously worked a Regional.

The District Commissioner is provided a list of certified umpires but would often leave it up to the tournament director to assign the umpires from the list unless the tournament director asked for assistance, in which case the District Commissioner would supply the umpires. This was usually by contacting each league and asking the league president to recommend umpires from their league, that were on the certified list. At least that is how it was handled in my state. I don't know if this was universal. The District Commissioner definitely needs to know if un-certified officials are working District tournaments. He may ask the tournament director to assign certified officials, or at a minimum, it is noted for future reference when assigning sites for District and/or State Tournaments.

[bigwes68]

This place they had the tournament won't ever get a state or regional. They usually get a district at one level or another because it's a central location. But past that, the place is a piece of junk.

The biggest problem with having non-certified umpires is that they have no one to answer to, and nothing held over their heads. But the tournament is over now, and there's nothing that can be done at this point.

Around here, we have an Area, divided into two Districts. Each district is divided into Large and Small, so there are four district tournaments at each age level in our area. So it makes for quite a shortage of umpires. The top two teams from each district tournament advance to the Area, plus the tournament host, making a five-team, double-elimination tournament. (Still divided into Large and Small). The area winners go to state, where the Large/Small stuff goes out the window.

In our district (Northwest Small), as far as I know, myself and my partner were the only two certified umpires working. We had the 10-and-under tournament, which was hosted by our league. Both the Babe Ruth 15's and the Cal Ripken 12-and-under were at the same location, and neither had certified umpires except for the championship game of the 12U. I'm not sure about the 7-8 machine pitch tournament, but I heard some horror stories from some fans about those guys, so I kinda doubt they were certified either. And I don't even know if they have a 16-18 league around here; most of those guys play travel ball in the summer.

[Edited by bigwes68 on Jul 5th, 2004 at 07:59 PM]

[DG]

Sad story.

[Rich]

Originally posted by bigwes68
I did talk to the area commissioner today. He said that at the district level, the league president could get whoever they wanted (read: major home field advantage). Once it gets to the Area level, he assigns umpires himself. I have an Area tournament that starts Friday. Problem we have is that there aren't that many certified Babe Ruth umpires in northwest Tennessee. There are lots of certified high school guys, but most of them have the big head and won't do baseball for less than high school pay ($55/game).

Next time we host a tournament, we should get a couple of the players' parents to call the game and have them wear team colors while doing it. Or get the guy that called a few (a VERY few) games here this year that just KNEW a batted ball was foul when it hit home plate "because one of the coaches told me so." Or the guy that smoked while in the field. Or the guy that wore NO plate gear except a mask.

You get what you pay for. Why is it that youth organizations expect to get top notch umpires for garbage fees? And who cares if the umpires are "certified?" Does certification mean anything more than submitting an open book test and scoring 80%?

--Rich

[DG]

Certification is a level above not, and offers some level of expertise, as compared to the umpire who has not chosen to become certified in any set of rules. Why not? Lazy or not confident in abilities are two good reasons for not becoming certified, neither of which inspires confidence. I would rather have someone who has proven to understand 80% of the rules than someone who has not bothered.

You want to be a doctor or lawyer or engineer, you have to get certified. You want a driver's license you have to get certified (70% on the exam). I personally don't want drivers than can't pass a simple test with 70% accuracy to be on the road with me.

[Edited by DG on Jul 5th, 2004 at 10:54 PM]

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

You get what you pay for. Why is it that youth organizations expect to get top notch umpires for garbage fees? And who cares if the umpires are "certified?" Does certification mean anything more than submitting an open book test and scoring 80%?

--Rich

If they submit an open book test and score 80%, at least it means they have probably opened a rule book at some point.

The problem is, a lot of these guys are certified to work FED, but they don't know OBR or anything about the particular league in which they are asked to work. We're not asking for "top-notch" umpires, we just want someone who is at least competent and somewhat familiar with the rules for that particular league. You want to make things as fair for the kids as you can, so I think you owe it to them to find quality umpires.

As for "garbage" fees, I don't feel like $30-35 for a 7-inning game is too bad for summer ball. Heck, in my local league, they pay $20 for the plate and $12.50 for the bases (which is pitiful). $25/game for 60-foot ball and $30-35 for 90-foot ball seems pretty good to me. These leagues pay what they can afford to pay; a lot of them can barely afford to pay the umpires what they do. You gotta realize that I live in a very rural area and we do the best we can just to have two or three local league teams each year.

[DG]

Originally posted by bigwes68

If they submit an open book test and score 80%, at least it means they have probably opened a rule book at some point.

The problem is, a lot of these guys are certified to work FED, but they don't know OBR or anything about the particular league in which they are asked to work. We're not asking for "top-notch" umpires, we just want someone who is at least competent and somewhat familiar with the rules for that particular league. You want to make things as fair for the kids as you can, so I think you owe it to them to find quality umpires.

As for "garbage" fees, I don't feel like $30-35 for a 7-inning game is too bad for summer ball. Heck, in my local league, they pay $20 for the plate and $12.50 for the bases (which is pitiful). $25/game for 60-foot ball and $30-35 for 90-foot ball seems pretty good to me. These leagues pay what they can afford to pay; a lot of them can barely afford to pay the umpires what they do. You gotta realize that I live in a very rural area and we do the best we can just to have two or three local league teams each year.

Then you get what you pay for, as Rich said. In my area you would not get competant, somewhat familiar with the rules umpires for these rates. I understand your rural problem, been there, done that.

[Rich]

Originally posted by bigwes68

If they submit an open book test and score 80%, at least it means they have probably opened a rule book at some point.

The problem is, a lot of these guys are certified to work FED, but they don't know OBR or anything about the particular league in which they are asked to work. We're not asking for "top-notch" umpires, we just want someone who is at least competent and somewhat familiar with the rules for that particular league. You want to make things as fair for the kids as you can, so I think you owe it to them to find quality umpires.

As for "garbage" fees, I don't feel like $30-35 for a 7-inning game is too bad for summer ball. Heck, in my local league, they pay $20 for the plate and $12.50 for the bases (which is pitiful). $25/game for 60-foot ball and $30-35 for 90-foot ball seems pretty good to me. These leagues pay what they can afford to pay; a lot of them can barely afford to pay the umpires what they do. You gotta realize that I live in a very rural area and we do the best we can just to have two or three local league teams each year.

I'm not blasting your efforts -- I'm just saying that you're going to find it difficult to secure competent umpires for leagues if you're not willing to pay the going rate for umpires of the caliber you want in your games. If you want umpires as good as you get in your HS games, be prepared to pay HS fees.

You are the one that used the phrase "big head" and "won't do baseball for less than." Why is it those umpires that have a problem? If they feel it is worth working your games for $35 a game, say, they will. If they won't, then either you pay them what they want or you settle for less. But you shouldn't make it sound like it is THEM who has the problem, either. For most, umpiring is not about community service.

Oh, and pay your base umpires the same as you pay the plate umpires. Paying plate umpires more is bush-league and everyone should be splitting the plates and bases equally anyhow.

--Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jul 6th, 2004 at 12:56 AM]

[JRutledge]

One of the reasons I do not work summer baseball, is because umpires are not treated with the same respect. We work the same amount of time, but we do not get paid for it. Why would I want to make $20 less than I do working during the HS season? Many times I am asked to travel just the same distance as well. I do not do this for the money, but it cost money for me to take time away from my job and gas it takes to drive to a site. Why would I want to do that and not be compensated for it? Then in many cases around here, you want me to work by myself, but not at the very least pay for all that work. More and more umpires are expected to work alone as well. That is just not right and not worth my time.

Peace

[GarthB]

he was an assistant coach for a local high school team that umpires summer ball.

This says it all.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by bigwes68
You get what you pay for. Why is it that youth organizations expect to get top notch umpires for garbage fees? And who cares if the umpires are "certified?" Does certification mean anything more than submitting an open book test and scoring 80%?
___________________

As for "garbage" fees, I don't feel like $30-35 for a 7-inning game is too bad for summer ball.

Rich, $30-$35 for a 7 inning game is standard where I am. In HS, the state recommends $45 for a single and $75 for a DH. Certification does matter. If a guy is going to take a test and it forces to open the rule book. All the better, maybe it will prevent that "home plate foul ball" call. FWIW, the Babe Ruth exam is a heck of a lot more difficult than the Fed. It requires application of the rule.

Big Wes, sorry to hear about your frustrations. One thing we did in rural northwest Arkansas is pulled in the groups of umpires from the small surrounding towns into our association. This allowed us to pool our resources for scheduling, helped to standardize umpire conduct and establish standards.

[Edited by jumpmaster on Jul 6th, 2004 at 10:15 AM]

[David B]

This time of year we hear this story repeated 100's of times.

Its a shame.

But this is what baseball has become. Thank goodness I live in an area where all of our league require umpires to be certified in which ever league and most all of the tournaments are called by guys who I know have years of experience etc.,

But as long as we have coaches and parents running umpires off and then we have too many leagues who don't want to pay their umpires what they are worth, it will continue to spiral downward.

I know in our local leagues we have a hard time finding young umpires to train - they simply won't stick with it due to too many problems (ie parents/coaches)

It's going to be sad in a few years to see what umpiring has become since most of the veterans in our areas are looking at giving it up in the next few years. (I'm sure this is the same all over the different regions)

Thanks
David