Pulled Foot - A first

PeteBooth · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 07:43am

I was watching ESPN this week where they show their top 10 Bloopers so to speak. One of them involved a Minor lague baseball game (I apologize as I can't remember the teams) and it involved what else the play at first. Was the foot on the bag or not?

In this particular case U1 ruled SAFE. The defensive manager came out and questioned the call. U1 got together with the PU and the call was changed to out (The correct call BTW). The Offensive manager went ballistic and did his Lou Pinella type antics which is the main reason this particular clip aired on ESPN to begin with.

So with all this talk we hear about not going to your partner, sticking with the call, etc. it seems that both Minor League and Major League umpires disagree. We have already seen Mr. Maclelland over-turn Garcia.

So here's my point, since MLB and affiliates are starting or have started depending on how you look at it to change calls that one would think couldn't, are we bound to do the same? after all many if not most think the game should be called the way they see it on TV.

Pete Booth

jicecone · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 08:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by PeteBooth
I was watching ESPN this week where they show their top 10 Bloopers so to speak. One of them involved a Minor lague baseball game (I apologize as I can't remember the teams) and it involved what else the play at first. Was the foot on the bag or not?

In this particular case U1 ruled SAFE. The defensive manager came out and questioned the call. U1 got together with the PU and the call was changed to out (The correct call BTW). The Offensive manager went ballistic and did his Lou Pinella type antics which is the main reason this particular clip aired on ESPN to begin with.

So with all this talk we hear about not going to your partner, sticking with the call, etc. it seems that both Minor League and Major League umpires disagree. We have already seen Mr. Maclelland over-turn Garcia.

So here's my point, since MLB and affiliates are starting or have started depending on how you look at it to change calls that one would think couldn't, are we bound to do the same? after all many if not most think the game should be called the way they see it on TV.

Pete Booth

Peter,

When in Rome, do as the Romans do however, I will never be in Rome(MLB,) so I can care less what color shirt they are wearing that day or what performance they put on for the SHOW. We are BOUND as officials to get the calls "as right" as possible, no matter the contest.

I know we can go on forever discussing the exactness of this statement, Eg.(change a ball to a strike because it was missed by the PU), but that is to the point of absurdity, I agree and is not necessary.

Believe me, if I called the game like on TV with quarter size stike zones, I would still be working my first game of the season.

I disagree, just because it is on TV does NOT mean "MOST" think it should be called that way. Some do. To them I say "wake up and smell the coffee". MLB and TV land is a all together different situation.

As officials we are BOUND to the following:

1. Learning the rules and their application.
2. Learning and applying mechanics that enable us to more easily assess conformity of the rules.
3. Working hard to be "as right and fair as possible", in executing our duties as officials.
4. Not trying to act like they do on TV.

ozzy6900 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 08:38am

I have no problem with going to my partner for a pulled foot or my partner coming to me - before the call is made! After that, don't come to me to bail you out!

We can do a lot before the decision is rendered. but the problem is that once the decision is announced, we're stuck with it. I'm sorry, all this BS about getting the call right is okay as long as it's done before the call is made. If we continue to change calls afterward to "get it right" then what the hell are we there for? The coaches can stand in the boxes, see the plays, discuss it with each other and save a bundle of cash!

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 09:20am

Whatever the call was, it looked really, really bad after he made a call.

No wonder the coach went ballistic.

I guess being a Minor League Umpire is not all it is cracked up to be.

Peace

rmstone · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 09:32am

I say get the call right... the plate umpire has a better angle... what are you going to do? Refer to your other umpire on EVERY play because there might be something you didn't see? Of course not, you make the call you see... and you don't want the PU running down telling you your wrong, but if a coach can convince you that there was something you didn't see whats the big problem with appealing?

ozzy6900 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 10:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by rmstone
I say get the call right... the plate umpire has a better angle... what are you going to do? Refer to your other umpire on EVERY play because there might be something you didn't see? Of course not, you make the call you see... and you don't want the PU running down telling you your wrong, but if a coach can convince you that there was something you didn't see whats the big problem with appealing?

Okay my friend, the coach just convinced you that the last pitch you called a strike was in fact a ball. Are you going to go to your BU to discuss it and change the call?

The coach just convinced you that the tag at 2nd that you were 10' away from was never placed on the runner. He was 100' away. Are you going to go to your PU to "consult"?

Well that's what you are condoning here! Get into the correct position to see and make the call. If you are not in good position (and you know when you are not), ask for help before you make the damn call!

Gee · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 10:35am

The same thing happened yesterday, Sunday. In the Braves game the Braves were batting, ground ball and play at first, base ump called the runner out. Cox came out and asked the base ump to get help. Base ump went to Mclelland, the plate ump and crew chief, for a conference and then reversed the call.
What's this world coming to. I guess when MLB say that there going to get the call right, they meant it.

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 10:47am

Our local mechanic, which works VERY well, is for BU, when suspecting a pulled foot, to look over to PU. At PU, if I see a pulled foot, I'll lift my foot when he glances over. Then he makes the call, and in tempo, pointing at the foot. Looks good, and gets the call right, all in one.

ozzy6900 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by Gee
The same thing happened yesterday, Sunday. In the Braves game the Braves were batting, ground ball and play at first, base ump called the runner out. Cox came out and asked the base ump to get help. Base ump went to Mclelland, the plate ump and crew chief, for a conference and then reversed the call.
What's this world coming to. I guess when MLB say that there going to get the call right, they meant it.

If this is the way we are destined to go I want instant replay so I can reverse every call out there!

Gee · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:07am

I really don't have a problem with Mclelland's decision on the reversal but I have a big problem with the first base ump GOING to him AFTER the call. Mclelland probably does to. Hope it wasn't Garcia at first. G.

I can see missing that call in a two man game from C or even B but not in a four man game from A, what was he doing. G.

[Edited by Gee on Jun 28th, 2004 at 12:11 PM]

jicecone · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by ozzy6900
I have no problem with going to my partner for a pulled foot or my partner coming to me - before the call is made! After that, don't come to me to bail you out!

We can do a lot before the decision is rendered. but the problem is that once the decision is announced, we're stuck with it. I'm sorry, all this BS about getting the call right is okay as long as it's done before the call is made. If we continue to change calls afterward to "get it right" then what the hell are we there for? The coaches can stand in the boxes, see the plays, discuss it with each other and save a bundle of cash!

They could. Then again they could just get a crew that does'nt have a ego problem and are willing to make the correct call. And as I already stated this does NOT mean to the point of absurdity.

I don't understand your point of contention here. Is it the fact that you may be perceived differently if you change your call or our you just stubborn?

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone
I don't understand your point of contention here. Is it the fact that you may be perceived differently if you change your call or our you just stubborn?

How many other calls are you going to change? Are we going to change a ball to a strike? Are we going to change balk to not a balk? These are judgment calls. You need to make them and live with them. If we messed up, we messed up. It will not be the last time that happens. They should have followed a better procedure. If that is the procedure, I do not think it is a very good one. Because coaches will expect us to change other calls that should never be changed.

Getting the call right should not be the main focus when we have already made a judgment call.

Peace

jicecone · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone
I don't understand your point of contention here. Is it the fact that you may be perceived differently if you change your call or our you just stubborn?

How many other calls are you going to change? Are we going to change a ball to a strike? Are we going to change balk to not a balk? These are judgment calls. You need to make them and live with them. If we messed up, we messed up. It will not be the last time that happens. They should have followed a better procedure. If that is the procedure, I do not think it is a very good one. Because coaches will expect us to change other calls that should never be changed.

Getting the call right should not be the main focus when we have already made a judgment call.

Peace

Oh Ye OF Little Faith

rmstone · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:30am

"Okay my friend, the coach just convinced you that the last pitch you called a strike was in fact a ball. Are you going to go to your BU to discuss it and change the call?"

You don't get help on a ball and strike call... if your going to make an argument, make a reasonable one at least...

"The coach just convinced you that the tag at 2nd that you were 10' away from was never placed on the runner. He was 100' away. Are you going to go to your PU to "consult"?"

Depends what I saw... 10' doesn't always mean you saw it better than 100'... any play can all of a sudden spin around and your 10' view is no longer good enough to see anything...

"Well that's what you are condoning here! Get into the correct position to see and make the call. If you are not in good position (and you know when you are not), ask for help before you make the damn call! "

I'm no condoning either of these... I'm not saying if you "think" you missed something to go the other umpire... because if you "THINK" you may not have seen enough then you should never make the call, you should appeal before the call. I'm talking about a situation where you hear a reasonable argument as to something you may have NOT SEEN AT ALL...

And lastly let me leave you a quote from the rulebook...

"The first requisite is to get decisions correctly. If in doubt don't hesitate to consult your associate."

If a coach can produce a doubt in my mind, I see no problem getting help, and neither does the rulebook.

ozzy6900 · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 28, 2004, 11:40am

Let me remind you all, that a judgement call means in my judgement! I have no problem in cunsulting on rules should a problem arise. Nor do I have a problem with going to my partner before the call to assist in my judgement. Once I have made the call, I have rendered my judgement (which is what I get paid for). Yes I am there to get the calls right but that is for the rules (OBS, INTF, BOO and things like that). Judgement is what we live (and die) by. Help to make that judgement is one thing but when we start reversing judgement calls left and right, we may as well let the coaches take care of the calls and we'll sit on the side lines.