Balk or not

[tornado]

This has been discussed recently but I need advice.

Can a RH pitcher legally throw (attempt a pickoff) to 1st by spinning/pivoting on his right foot while left foot steps toward 1st?

Does it matter if he has come set or not??

[DG]

Originally posted by tornado
This has been discussed recently but I need advice.

Can a RH pitcher legally throw (attempt a pickoff) to 1st by spinning/pivoting on his right foot while left foot steps toward 1st?

Does it matter if he has come set or not??

Yes.

No.

[rmstone]

Had an argument with a coach this year that said its physically impossible to do such a spin without making SOME motion home... but I still agree with DG, its NOT a balk. As long as the left foot steps straight to first..

[DG]

Jump turn is not a balk. By definition, in a jump turn, the left foot is stepping to 1B (for RH pitcher).

Arguements with coaches are inevitable. I would imagine the arguement was after a successful pickoff.

[tornado]

Is there a rules/balk interpretation written somewhere that will back this up? I'm in disagreement with my league's UIC. He keeps telling me that a RH has to disengage in order to throw to first...

Help!

[wobster]

When I played babe ruth, we had a pitcher who picked many people off at first. He would go to set, bring his leg straight up and push it back underneath him in a straight line to first, and just let his body turn natural. The umpires never called a balk. That doesn't always mean it was right, because he have several experienced umpires around here now that still don't call the infield fly rule, even when our league rules say it is in effect.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by tornado
Is there a rules/balk interpretation written somewhere that will back this up? I'm in disagreement with my league's UIC. He keeps telling me that a RH has to disengage in order to throw to first...

Help!

The pitching sections for NCAA, OBR, Federation(High School), LL, Babe Ruth, etc, etc, Rule books, will ALL tell you that a pitcher (RH or LF)may throw from the mound to first, without stepping off the plate.As long as a step toward first is made.

Now, if a pitcher steps off the plate, the only acceptable way is to step directly behind the plate with the pivot foot. Disengaging to throw to first from the front of the pitching plate is NOT considered STEPPING OFF if the pitcher throws and steps towards first base. It is legal.

Ask your UIC why they would make special rules for RH pitchers?????

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tornado
Is there a rules/balk interpretation written somewhere that will back this up? I'm in disagreement with my league's UIC. He keeps telling me that a RH has to disengage in order to throw to first...

Help!

ASk him if a LH pitcher must disengage. Ask him if the pitching rules are different for RH and LH pitchers.

[tornado]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

ASk him if a LH pitcher must disengage. Ask him if the pitching rules are different for RH and LH pitchers.

I have asked him that. He says, "No." When I ask him if the rules are different he says, "Yes."

Then he called a balk on a RH with R1 & R3. The RH stepped & faked to 3rd and then wheeled and threw to 1st. He told the pitcher he had to "disengage from the rubber in order to throw to first!"

I'm stuck. That's why I'm asking if there's a written interpretation that will back me up on this rule. It's the only way I'm gonna win this argument...

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tornado

I have asked him that. He says, "No." When I ask him if the rules are different he says, "Yes."

Ask him to show you the rule. Show him the last CMT on 8.01(a). NOte that "thorw ot a base" and "disengage" are separate options. Show him 8.01(c) -- note that there's no requirement to step off. IF he still doesn't believe you, give him up as lost.

Then he called a balk on a RH with R1 & R3. The RH stepped & faked to 3rd and then wheeled and threw to 1st. He told the pitcher he had to "disengage from the rubber in order to throw to first!"

He's correct here, at least under OBR. That said, I've never seen F1 make this move without disengaging during the feint to third.

[DG]

Originally posted by tornado
Is there a rules/balk interpretation written somewhere that will back this up? I'm in disagreement with my league's UIC. He keeps telling me that a RH has to disengage in order to throw to first...

Help!

From PBUC 6.5(f) - If a pitcher, while touching his plate, jumps into the air with both feet simultaneously and his non-pivot foot lands in a step toward first base before he throws to that base, he has made a legal move.

A jump turn is not a balk.

[nine01c]

He's correct here, at least under OBR. That said, I've never seen F1 make this move without disengaging during the feint to third.

He may not be correct under OBR, depending on how F1 moves. See Rule 8.05c comment following. As long as he steps toward 3B (foot comes down on ground), he can then turn and step toward and throw to 1B legally. The key is he must also make that step toward 1B and not just wheel (spin) and throw. He does NOT have to disengage. He does NOT have to disengage. This is gaining on the Baseball Myth list of all time favorites.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by nine01c

He may not be correct under OBR, depending on how F1 moves. See Rule 8.05c comment following. As long as he steps toward 3B (foot comes down on ground), he can then turn and step toward and throw to 1B legally. The key is he must also make that step toward 1B and not just wheel (spin) and throw. He does NOT have to disengage. He does NOT have to disengage. This is gaining on the Baseball Myth list of all time favorites.

In OBR and NCAA he does have to disengage after his fake to third. He does have to disengage. Federation(HS) rules , he does not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by nine01c

He does NOT have to disengage. He does NOT have to disengage. This is gaining on the Baseball Myth list of all time favorites.

MLB Umpire Manual, 7.5(h) NOTE: "Also, in the fake to third base, the pitcher must break contact with the rubber before throwing to first base."

[nine01c]

In OBR and NCAA he does have to disengage after his fake to third. He does have to disengage. [/B]

Not looking for an argument here, just clarification. 8.05c explains this move exactly. In stepping, F1 will naturally step off the rubber in order to turn, step, and throw. I know if he wheels in place it's a balk. My "vision" of disengaging is "proper" disengaging (stepping off the back of the rubber). Are you saying F1 has to properly disengage? I understand he just has to break contact with the rubber in order to fulfill the requirement. Did not mean to mislead anyone.

I don't have the MLB manual Bob has for further info.
My comment about a Myth is that a growing number of coaches are insisting that F1 cannot throw over to 1B directly from the rubber
without (properly) disengaging. I hope I'm not missing something here.