How is your mechanic...

Dave Hensley

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I've heard some umpires talk about making a safe signal to signify that yes he can run. I DISAGREE WITH THIS.

PU giving the safe sign to indicate the 3rd strike was not caught is an NCAA mechanic. At least it was a consistently followed mechanic by all umpires in last year's College World Series, and it was taught by two of those CWS umpires at a clinic I attended last fall.

nickrego

On a 3rd Strike Not Caught where the batter can not run to 1st, our association suggests using the Out Knock and verbalizing Batter’s Out.

Side note: For 3rd SNC’s where the batter can run, our association suggests we hold our right fist above our head, with no verbalization, until the runner is either safe or out. I don’t like this because may times it is thought I am indicating the batter is out.

DownTownTonyBrown

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I've heard some umpires talk about making a safe signal to signify that yes he can run. I DISAGREE WITH THIS.

PU giving the safe sign to indicate the 3rd strike was not caught is an NCAA mechanic. At least it was a consistently followed mechanic by all umpires in last year's College World Series, and it was taught by two of those CWS umpires at a clinic I attended last fall.

I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics.

Rich

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I've heard some umpires talk about making a safe signal to signify that yes he can run. I DISAGREE WITH THIS.

PU giving the safe sign to indicate the 3rd strike was not caught is an NCAA mechanic. At least it was a consistently followed mechanic by all umpires in last year's College World Series, and it was taught by two of those CWS umpires at a clinic I attended last fall.

I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics.

What signal do you make when a line drive short-hops an infielder? Why do you make it?

--Rich

Dave Hensley

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I assume the mechanic still includes the strike (out) signal for the third strike and then is followed by a safe signal?

And who is this safe signal for? The catcher who already knows he didn't catch the ball and is looking the other way anyhow? The fans who just saw you call an out (strike signal) and then reverse your signal to safe? Why is the umpire calling him safe when he hasn't reached 1st base yet?

Dave, what were the clinicians' justification for the safe signal? It seems contrary to other mechanics. [/B]

As Rich points out, the signal is similar in rationale to signalling no catch on a fly ball or line drive. It is made when an uncaught third strike is not obvious and not followed immediately by a tag of the batter by the catcher. It is for the game participants. It is also accompanied by a verbal "no catch."

I find myself rarely using the mechanic because most uncaught third strikes are obvious and the players react as they should, with batter running and catcher playing on him. There have, however, been a few occasions where I've used the mechanic and it seemed to serve its purpose satisfactorily.

DG

Originally posted by thumpferee
Been thinking about mechanic on swinging 3rd stikes.

I know the ruling but wanted to get your mechanic on what you do when the BR cannot run.

I had a situation 2 years ago I can't seem to get off my mind.

Situation: R2 and R1, 1 out, 2 strikes on the batter. Pitch is in the dirt, batter swings, strike 3. BR takes off toward 1st base as all other runners take off. PU makes no call on the BR (I assumed there were 2 outs), the catcher throws to 3rd which beats the runner for the force out, so I thought(no tag was applied).

Anyway, offensive coach comes out and states there are only 2 outs. I immediately called time and told all players to stop where they were. I go to my P and ask him how many outs there are. He states, 2. Well you know the rest, R3 and R2, 2 outs...

I come out point, signal out and voice, batter is out, batter is out!

Is that the correct mechanic?

What do you do?

If I am the PU, I verbally call STRIKE, I visually show fist, and with 1B occupied and less than 2 outs, I say BATTER IS OUT, maybe twice, if the action dictates. Sounds to me like your mechanic is sound.

Kaliix

If it's strike three on a batter, is the normal mechanic to signal a strike followed by an out signal?

If so, would it make sense on a dropped third strike to signal strike and out if the runner could not advance or signal strike but make no out sign if the runner can advance because first base is open or there are two outs?

That would seem to keep the signals consistent.

[Edited by Kaliix on May 20th, 2004 at 09:27 AM]

thumpferee

Kaliix, good point but...

my strike and out is similiar. I stand and call strike with no swing using a fist rather than a point. On a swinging strike there is obvously no verbal but again I use a fist signal as I point to the batter. The only real difference is the heighth. On a strike my signal is lower and more toward the front, an out for me is higher and more over the shoulder.

Carl Childress

Originally posted by jicecone
That is exactly what you should be doing. Preventive umpiring. Letting the batter know that they are out and saving the arguments after the fact because no one is thinking, but just reacting.

I almost always will state "On the swing, Batter is out, batter is out".

The most humorus coach is the one that comes out to try and explain that at the time that the batter struck out, first base was not occupied because they had a steal on and his player was on the way to second.??????????????????????????????

First, I agree with Jicecone. Coaches are always trying to convince someone the batter can run because R1 is "already halfway to second."

Second, I've written an article about this subject. Tomorrow (21 May) you may read that piece, whether you're a subscriber or not. Click the URL: http://baseball.officiating.com/x/article/3798

Jeff Davis

The thing that worries me here is that the BU didn't know the sitch. Seems that the two umpires didn't have good team signals/mechanics. For instance, before every batter, and every change of situation, if BU is inside then PU and BU exchange signals (can you say pre-game?). That way, both umpires KNOW how many outs and the sitch. No surprises (like this one for the BU) makes for easier and smoother games.

Rick