Strange things happen

[David B]

We're in midst of our state playoffs.

We have three of our locals in the south state finals but we don't get to call any of them in the final two rounds.

But saw this in the paper:


But a called third strike on a pitch that hit a Tornado batter kept a runner off base when Hunter Dunaway followed with a solo home run that cut the margin to 8-7.

The stranget things is that it was with two strikes and the kid batting already had 2 home runs in the game.

Local team ended up losing with game 3 tonight, but thought that was interesting.

I know that several of their players have a tendency to lean in on pitches and have seen them try to get hit, (but always on a pitch that was in etc.,) but just wondering if any of you have actually had to call strike three on the pitch.

My guess is that is would have to be a curve ball, but Wow! Don't think I'd make that call unless it was very very obvious.

Anyway I haven't had a chance to talk to the local team coach yet to see what he thought.

Just thought I'd share.

Thanks
David



[Edited by David B on May 12th, 2004 at 01:00 PM]

[scyguy]

about three years ago had bases loaded, full count, 2 outs, bottom of the 7th, tie score. Pitch hits batter that intentionally sticks front elbow into pitch. However, pitch was not a strike (inside on RH) but close. Killed ball, awarded first to batter, not because he was HBP, but because it was ball four. Coach, of course, argued that he made no attempt to get out of the way. I agreed, but had to call pitch based on location. Funny thing was he came to me raving (home team) crowd was raving, had a rule book and read from it. Convienently (sp)stopped reading in mid sentence. I read the whole rule to him and explained my call. He and the crowd were still not happy. I had a fun walk to the truck!!

[blueump]

Don't think I'd make that call unless it was very very obvious.

Are you saying you would call this only when the situation wasn't as crucial? Maybe I misunderstood, but I try to call the same game in the final inning as I have in the first inning, regardless of the score or count.

If the ball was in the strike zone when he was hit, its a dead ball strike, even if he's the potentially tying or winning run!

[David B]

Originally posted by blueump
Don't think I'd make that call unless it was very very obvious.

Are you saying you would call this only when the situation wasn't as crucial? Maybe I misunderstood, but I try to call the same game in the final inning as I have in the first inning, regardless of the score or count.

If the ball was in the strike zone when he was hit, its a dead ball strike, even if he's the potentially tying or winning run!

Not at all. That would be ludicrous.

My point is that I have kept several batters in the box this year for leaning, sticking elbow out, (all obvious attempts to be hit). I've even had this same team and had to put this batter back in the box for extending the elbow (but the pitch was high and tight).

My comment was simply that to call it strike three I would have to be very very sure that it was going to be a strike.

And if its a curve ball, you almost have to give the batter the benefit of the doubt I would think.

But, that's why I posed the play, just to see what others would think and how they would react. And since there were two strikes on the batter, I thought that made it a little more entertaining to think about.

I didn't see the play so I don't know if its a good call or not, but just a point of information.

Thanks
David

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by scyguy
about three years ago had bases loaded, full count, 2 outs, bottom of the 7th, tie score. Pitch hits batter that intentionally sticks front elbow into pitch. However, pitch was not a strike (inside on RH) but close. Killed ball, awarded first to batter, not because he was HBP, but because it was ball four. Coach, of course, argued that he made no attempt to get out of the way. I agreed, but had to call pitch based on location. Funny thing was he came to me raving (home team) crowd was raving, had a rule book and read from it. Convienently (sp)stopped reading in mid sentence. I read the whole rule to him and explained my call. He and the crowd were still not happy. I had a fun walk to the truck!!

"DEAD BALL. That was ball four. Batter take first base."

Of course, the coaches and the morons in the stands will not hear, "Ball four", and still complain.

[greymule]

Interesting post. I've called several strikes on FP softball players who stuck their knee into the strike zone to get hit, but I don't recall ever seeing a batter hit in the strike zone in baseball, at any level. Must be more common elsewhere than the Northeast.

[jxt127]

Called it last year on a kid who stuck his head into the strike zone.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by jxt127
Called it last year on a kid who stuck his head into the strike zone.

His head? He got his head over the plate and then ducked down or bent over so that it was at or below a midpoint between...etc. all before the pitch got there?

Wow.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by David B
But a called third strike on a pitch that hit a Tornado batter kept a runner off base when Hunter Dunaway followed with a solo home run that cut the margin to 8-7.

The stranget things is that it was with two strikes and the kid batting already had 2 home runs in the game.

I know that several of their players have a tendency to lean in on pitches and have seen them try to get hit, (but always on a pitch that was in etc.,) but just wondering if any of you have actually had to call strike three on the pitch.

My guess is that is would have to be a curve ball, but Wow! Don't think I'd make that call unless it was very very obvious.

Thanks
David

[Edited by David B on May 12th, 2004 at 01:00 PM]

David: This year I had the plate with the Valley's number 2 team. Their coach was a catcher when I called at Pan-American back in the early 90s. He teaches his players to crowd the plate.

Clean-up hitter at bat, crowding the plate. (What else?) Curve ball, and B4 leans into the pitch. I call dead ball, and he starts for first.

I start for the third-base box. "Tinker," I said, "he's not going to get first."

Grinning: "Yes, he did lean a little far, didn't he?"

"You're not going to like this, Coach. He's out. That pitch was a strike, and he already had two."

Tinker said not a word. (He's known me a long time.)

My records show it is the first time I ever called that play for an out.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Carl Childress
My records show it is the first time I ever called that play for an out.

I have never heard of anyone keeping records of their calls. Mabye I will start. Do any other guys do this too?

[DG]

No records kept here. Memories maybe but not records. I go home and drink a beer.

I have called very few pitches strikes that hit batters (less than a dozen), but I have kept many players at the plate who either leaned in or made no effort (100 or more). There was a post on this subject recently that I decided to drop out of, because there were too many people who felt that a batter hit in the box by a pitch that bounced should be awarded 1B, even if he made no effort.

I have never had a called third strike on one that hit the batter. This is from memory only. But I would do it if the situation warranted.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by DG
No records kept here. Memories maybe but not records. I go home and drink a beer.

I have called very few pitches strikes that hit batters (less than a dozen), but I have kept many players at the plate who either leaned in or made no effort (100 or more). There was a post on this subject recently that I decided to drop out of, because there were too many people who felt that a batter hit in the box by a pitch that bounced should be awarded 1B, even if he made no effort.

I have never had a called third strike on one that hit the batter. This is from memory only. But I would do it if the situation warranted.

DG: I hope I don't offend, but likely your schedule would improve if you kept a journal of your games first ... and drank beer afterward. Some senior umpires, like Tee and me, have notes on every game we ever called. It's a great way to realize how much better we are now but also how much better we could be.

Misapply a rule? Write it down. Blow a mechanic? Write it down. Apply a strangely wonderful rule (with two outs and two strikes the batter gets hit by a pitch in the strike zone)?

Write it down!

[DG]

Originally posted by Carl Childress

DG: I hope I don't offend, but likely your schedule would improve if you kept a journal of your games first ... and drank beer afterward. Some senior umpires, like Tee and me, have notes on every game we ever called. It's a great way to realize how much better we are now but also how much better we could be.

Misapply a rule? Write it down. Blow a mechanic? Write it down. Apply a strangely wonderful rule (with two outs and two strikes the batter gets hit by a pitch in the strike zone)?

Write it down!

I don't take offense. This whole posting thing is all about getting different views on things. But keeping a diary would not be something I could do. Even if I wrote it down, I would not go back and look at it months later, so it would be pointless for me to write it down. This may work for some people but I can not see a diary providing any benefit to me. I do have an excellent memory and if there is some ruling that comes up I am not sure about I look it up after the game and then I know, forever.

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by blueump
Don't think I'd make that call unless it was very very obvious.

Are you saying you would call this only when the situation wasn't as crucial? Maybe I misunderstood, but I try to call the same game in the final inning as I have in the first inning, regardless of the score or count.

If the ball was in the strike zone when he was hit, its a dead ball strike, even if he's the potentially tying or winning run!

Please look up the definitions of "OBVIOUS" and "CRITICAL". You misinterpreted what he wrote.