Everyones favorite subject....the BALK!!!

[Illini_Ref]

Where in the NF rules does it say that a pitcher cannot deceive a runner. I know that it states that he cannot feint a pitch or a throw to first that deceives the runner, but does it say that he cannot decieve a runner?

Two incidents. First one. Runner on first, three man crew so there is a BU at first. Left handed pitcher brings his foot behind the rubber during deliver and delivers home. The BU said that his movement wasn't consistent with what he had been doing and it deceived the runner. Agree or Disagree. The BU called a balk.

Second situation. Right handed pitcher, runner on first. Pitcher comes set, picks his pivot foot (right) straight up just like he would his left when he delivers a pitch. Runner sees a knee go up and takes off. Pitcher brings the right foot to the ground behind the runner and throws to second. Balk or not?

[jicecone]

OK, If it makes you happy, the NFHS book does not use the word "DECEIVE".

NOW HEAR THIS!

NOW HEAR THIS!

RULE 6.1, 6.21 a-e & 6.4 & 6.5 lists "INFRACTIONS BY PITCHER", "Illegal acts" and acts that if done by the pitcher with a runner or runners on base, while he is touching the pitchers plate, is a balk.

First things first, I was not at the game so to make these calls without seen what actually happened, is really really tuff.

Situation 1. R1, I have to assume 2 things because of lack of info. a. Pitcher is in set position. b. Pitcher stepped back off the pitching plate while in the act of pitching.

Rule 6.5 says that "if a pitcher makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch", "while he is not touching the pitchers plate," it is a balk.

Situation2. Again, not having seen this one, if the pitcher lifted his pivot foot straight up without attempting to step behind the pitching plate immediately, then he is in violation of 6.1.3, "or he may lift his foot in a step backward off the pitchers plate". Balk. Lifting your foot in a step, and lifting it straight up first, are 2 different motions. And for our discussion ILLEGAL. And that IS in the Rule Book.

[David B]

Originally posted by Illini_Ref
Where in the NF rules does it say that a pitcher cannot deceive a runner. I know that it states that he cannot feint a pitch or a throw to first that deceives the runner, but does it say that he cannot decieve a runner?

Two incidents. First one. Runner on first, three man crew so there is a BU at first. Left handed pitcher brings his foot behind the rubber during deliver and delivers home. The BU said that his movement wasn't consistent with what he had been doing and it deceived the runner. Agree or Disagree. The BU called a balk.

Second situation. Right handed pitcher, runner on first. Pitcher comes set, picks his pivot foot (right) straight up just like he would his left when he delivers a pitch. Runner sees a knee go up and takes off. Pitcher brings the right foot to the ground behind the runner and throws to second. Balk or not?

In Sitch 1 it is only a balk if F1 brings his entire non-pivot foot behind the back edge of the pitching rubber.

I cannot tell if that's what he did, but I do know its pretty hard to bring the entire foot behind the back edge of the rubber without going to the plate.

thanks
David

[David B]

Originally posted by Tim C
David:

Please re-read situation #1.

I think you missed the issue.

Tee

Oh yeah, I was thinking he called a balk for that, but since he went home ....


Sounds like booger pickin to me.

Let the kids play.


Thanks
David

[David B]

Originally posted by Tim C
Hooray for David!

Not only was it "booger picking" he screwed up the rule to begin with.

No wonder Rats can write articles for this webpage and use certified umpires as their goat.

Tee

Guys like that who umpire make me really cring.

They make all umpires look bad!

#1 Know the rules but further, #2 - #5 - know how to apply them to the game.

Thanks
David

[jicecone]

OK , Mabey I replied too late last night. Because I didn't read that the pitcher was LH.

First Sit. LH Pitcher "brings his foot behind the rubber during delivery and delivers home". Even if the pitcher did something inconsistant with what he did before, was it illegal. No. No balk. I stand corrected.

[David B]

Originally posted by Tim C
David:

But wait, you should have seen the RULE I screwed up Monday night! It was not pretty.

Tee

Now that sounds interesting ...

I had a call yesterday also from one of our locals wanted to know where the rule was that its a balk if F3 is not on the field with both feet etc.,

Coaches will try anything, that's why we have to anticipate their motives etc.,

Have a good day

Thanks
DAvid

[scyguy]

in situation 2, you cannot throw to an unoccupied base, unless you have stepped backward with your pivot foot. Had a kid, set position, runner at 2nd. Runner takes off as pitcher lifts non-pivot. Pitcher hears "runner is going". Steps correctly to third and throws toward 3B. BALK

Does everyone use the concept of distance and direction to determine balk?

[jicecone]

"in situation 2, you cannot throw to an unoccupied base, unless you have stepped backward with your pivot foot. Had a kid, set position, runner at 2nd. Runner takes off as pitcher lifts non-pivot. Pitcher hears "runner is going". Steps correctly to third and throws toward 3B. BALK"

I believe you missed what the rest of that rule reads. This is federation rules and I know the other two, (NCAA & OBR) are pretty much the same. Rule 7.2.4 b. "it is a balk: b.failing to step with the non-pivot foor directly toward a base (occupied or unoccupied)when throwing or feinting there in an attempt to put out, or drive back a runner; or throwing or feinting to any unoccupied base when it is NOT an attempt to put out or drive back a runner."

Now where you can actually throw to directly from the pitchin plate may vary a little by code. So your statement is only partially correct.

[DG]

Originally posted by scyguy
in situation 2, you cannot throw to an unoccupied base, unless you have stepped backward with your pivot foot. Had a kid, set position, runner at 2nd. Runner takes off as pitcher lifts non-pivot. Pitcher hears "runner is going". Steps correctly to third and throws toward 3B. BALK

Does everyone use the concept of distance and direction to determine balk?

I believe you can throw to an unnocupied base from the set position if you are doing it to drive back or put out an advancing runner, and you make the proper step towards the base as you would when it was occupied.

See Fed 6-2-4b or OBR 8.04(b).

[jicecone]

Sorry about that, it is Rule 6 not 7.

[DG]

[/B][/QUOTE]

I had a call yesterday also from one of our locals wanted to know where the rule was that its a balk if F3 is not on the field with both feet etc.,

[/B][/QUOTE]

In Fed see 1-3.. At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground. PENALTY: Illegal pitch. (2-18-1) ... and of course an illegal pitch with runners on base is a BALK.

I have never called this, seen it called, or had an offensive coach complain about it. Only now have I ever heard of anyone actually seeing this called.

From Carl's little book "51 Ways to Ruin a Baseball Game"
3. Call a rule nobody knows.
7. Call a (highly) technical balk.

[scyguy]

I believe you can throw to an unnocupied base from the set position if you are doing it to drive back or put out an advancing runner, and you make the proper step towards the base as you would when it was occupied.

After reading rule, you are right!! I blew it. Thank you, learn something new everyday, eventually you will be a better umpire.