Three man question

[rex]

We got R1---U1 is in “A” ---U2 is in deep “C”

Batter hits a very high pop FOUL along the first base line. F2 takes off after the ball followed closely by UIC. F3 takes off after the ball followed closely by U1. F1 takes off after the ball—U2 moves into his happy place to watch R1 and catch/tag up.

UIC and U1 are watching their respective fielders like hawks on mice. U2 is watching as F1 heads for the line and just at the 45 foot mark F1 tangles with the BR.(no big fall on the ground and roll around tangle but enough of a tangle for a stumble)

The ball then falls harmlessly to the ground about three or four feet in front of ALL fielders. Had F1 not tangled with the BR he would have, could have, might have had a shot at a catch.

The question is basic. Who’s call would it be? OR is there a call? UIC and U1 are tied up with their fielders and see nothing. U2 is out of position for a line call (not the right term) He’s just in the wrong place for angle and distance to judge if F1 really could have made a play on the ball. All he knows for sure is F1 and BR tangled on the foul line at the 45 foot mark.

rex

[RAC]

It should be the UIC's call. The first base umpire should not have gone after the foul ball. The Plate umpire has that call. The ball was not going past the bag. So he could have been watching for interference.

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by rex


We got R1---U1 is in “A” ---U2 is in deep “C”

Batter hits a very high pop FOUL along the first base line. F2 takes off after the ball followed closely by UIC. F3 takes off after the ball followed closely by U1. F1 takes off after the ball—U2 moves into his happy place to watch R1 and catch/tag up.

UIC and U1 are watching their respective fielders like hawks on mice. U2 is watching as F1 heads for the line and just at the 45 foot mark F1 tangles with the BR.(no big fall on the ground and roll around tangle but enough of a tangle for a stumble)

The ball then falls harmlessly to the ground about three or four feet in front of ALL fielders. Had F1 not tangled with the BR he would have, could have, might have had a shot at a catch.

The question is basic. Who’s call would it be? OR is there a call? UIC and U1 are tied up with their fielders and see nothing. U2 is out of position for a line call (not the right term) He’s just in the wrong place for angle and distance to judge if F1 really could have made a play on the ball. All he knows for sure is F1 and BR tangled on the foul line at the 45 foot mark.

rex

Rex:

According to the mechanics I used for over 40 years, with a runner on first only, all popups to foul ground before the bag belong to the UIC. Reason: R1 will remain on the base. If the ball is caught by F1, who falls and rolls, a fast runner could make it to second after the catch. Therefore, U1 is needed at first for the retouch after the catch. (You write that U2 moves to the working area -- "sweet spot" -- to get that tag. That must have been a typo.)

So, my first question is: Why is U1 also following the ball? That's particularly relevant, I think, when there is no doubt about where the ball will drop: in this case, the 45-foot line.

It seems you want the UIC to handle the catcher while the U1 takes the first baseman. Proper mechanics on that popup assign F1, F2, and F3 all to the UIC.

You have U1 at first (watching for the retouch); U2 in deep C, ready for a play at second. You have the UIC watching the fielders and the runner.

When F1 and R1 tangle, with the ball falling anywhere near F1, that's interference, dead ball, B1 is out, R1 remains.

The mechanics change, of course, if there's a runner also at third. That play happened to me in a high school playoff game (Corpus Christi Moody, McAllen Memorial) with a four-man crew: I was U1. We were working a split crew, so the plate umpire and U2 were from the Corpus "chapter"; my mentor, David Mosqueda, was at third. Naturally, we had not covered that unusual situation in our pregame. (R1, R3, fewer than two out, foul popup short of either first or third.)

In a park with a very deep backstop the ball was coming down near the screen on the first-base side of the field, 50 feet or so up the line. The UIC (mistakenly, in my opinion but a "natural" reaction) went to the ball. That should have been my call because of R3. When I saw him heading with F2 for the ball, I busted into fair territory and sprinted for the plate. I noted out of the corner of my eye that F1 was on a deep run for home as well.

Sure enough, F2 made the catch, fell, and R3 retouched and came home. On a very close play I called him out at the plate.

Here's a summary:

UIC remained with the ball/F2 for catch/no catch; he hit the ground; the ball might have skimmed the screen no catch.

U3 remained at third for the retouch by R3.

U2, in Deep C (Texas mechanics, R1, second open), moved to very deep B (behind the baseline) to get the retouch of R1. (My opinion: That was a key coverage some umpires would neglect.)

U1 (me) moved to the plate for the call on R3.

R1, believing he had a free ride to advance, headed for second during the play at the plate and pulled in safely. But no! U2 called him out for leaving too soon: "Hell, Carl, he never even went back after he saw you leave first."

We had the play covered, but I would prefer that U1 take that ball, with the UIC remaining at the plate and U2 getting the retouch at first.

[Edited by Carl Childress on Nov 5th, 2000 at 05:59 AM]

[rex]

Carl asked
So, my first question is: Why is U1 also following the ball? That's particularly relevant, I think, when there is no doubt about where the ball will drop: in this case, the 45-foot line

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Don’t really know other than it was a mistake in judgement on the part of U1.

Regardless of the mistake or what U1 may or may not have seen or thought he saw, to get him out of A or where the ball might end up. Neither the UIC nor U1 saw the interference. U2 followed his instinct to get into a position to cover the field. Unfortunately he saw something that was not covered under instinct. He was in the wrong position to make a judgement call as to witch fielder had the best play on the ball. The question now is not who’s call, but should U2 have made the call anyhow?

rex

[Carl Childress]

Originally posted by rex

Regardless of the mistake or what U1 may or may not have seen or thought he saw, to get him out of A or where the ball might end up. Neither the UIC nor U1 saw the interference. U2 followed his instinct to get into a position to cover the field. Unfortunately he saw something that was not covered under instinct. He was in the wrong position to make a judgement call as to witch fielder had the best play on the ball. The question now is not who’s call, but should U2 have made the call anyhow?

rex

AS you know, I am one of the foremost exponents of helping your partner. I do not hold with the modern tendency, picked up from professional graduates who didn't get a contract, of: "He gets his calls, and I get mine."

That being said (as the cliché goes), this is a three-man crew with the UIC (properly) in place and U1 (improperly but in place nevertheless) in place and .... Neither makes a call. I don't think U2 has one chance in a hundred of selling his "interference" call. If he does nothinng, of course, he had made a call, albeit a "no call."

My advice: Leave everything as it is, and chew their rear ends out in the post-game "yelling match."