|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 12:23am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
In the past that same basic belief and been put in many, far more hostile ways: "You're a F@#$in liar", "BullSh!t you @$$hole", and my personal favorite, "Hey Pinnochio, are you still lying or is your nose just happy to see me?" Going back and re-reading John's posts, I can understand some of Rich's problems accepting them as gospel. Wasn't it John who told us that a major league umpire told him that pitchers had to be replaced if they hit three batters? How about the still unnamed survey that John reported to us that allegedly contradicted the named surveys regarding MLU Angel Hernandez? Granted, John is a bit newer to the board than some others. And perhaps the image he conveys in his posts doesn't do reality justice. But the sum of the parts provided here don't add up to what many of us have come to expect of a trainer who has a loyal following of groupies.
__________________
GB 
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 03:21am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Maybe John is prone to enthusiastic embellishment of the facts, or maybe he is simply too honest to tone down those facts to make them more pallatable to the cynics among us. Either way Rich's retort was an entirely personal comment not related to baseball, and it did come from a moderator of the board charged with deleting such offending personal posts. IMHO Jeff's (mo99) comment was on point. No-one likes to be accused of lying, even by a faceless troll on an Internet discussion board - not that Rich is either faceless or a troll. John's perfectly normal reaction has no bearing at all on how the he might react on the diamond. To suggest otherwise, as some have done, is to ignore the obvious differences in circumstances, time and place. Cheers
__________________
Warren Willson
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 08:02am
|
|||
|
|||
Garth,
If you are going to go back and refer to what people say, then make sure you have it acurate of what they said. Garth, it does not look good on your part to refer to something that was never said. In regards to the pitching rule in major league baseball Garth, I never said that a major league umpire told me that after one pitcher hits three batters, he has to be removed. I stated that I "read" that somewhere in the rulebook. When actually, I was reading something else in the rulebook and get it messed up with pitching rules. And the other comment that I made in regards to Angel Hernandez was in SI earlier this year. All that happened there is, I got the names out of line. In closing, Garth I find it very interesting that you, like to come out and crucify other members for things that say that may be incorrect and that is okay, but if we in turn do not agree with something you have said and we say something about it, then that is not alright. If you and other members of this post, such has Rich are so "perfect" in your officiating information, then I can safely assume that the both of you are officiating at the "professional" level currently on a full time basis. Have I been wrong in some things I have said in the past on any of these topics? ABSOLUTELY! I think there has been a time or two when we have "ALL" been wrong in comments that we have made on this website. Does that mean we come out and take somebody to the "wood shed" because of some misinformation they gave out? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Since Warren brought this up, I would like to continue it for a moment. Please bare with me for going way off officiating for moment, but I feel it to be neccessary. In the Bible, when Jesus heard and seen people speak bad information, he calmly, quietly, and politely corrected them. He did not make them look a fool in front of other people. Same is true here, we gain more respect from coaches, players, and fellow officials if we take care of our disagreements that we have with each other as officials that tend to run longer then expected privately, not in front of fellow officials, and everyone else, so that an official doesn't feel out of place and embarrassed. Warren, I understand your point and agree with it to some extent, and I thank you for the defense of me in your last response to this topic.
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 08:03am
|
||||
|
||||
|
Warren:
Thanks for your opinion. However, I refuse to not have an opinion and refuse to not express an opinion just because I am a moderator. There are three moderators on this board. If one of them finds what I posted offensive, he can remove it. Checks and balances and all that. And I'm not the only one finding this all hard to believe. Rich
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 08:15am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Hehehehe,
John has a history of inaccurate posting.
He is the ultimate "professional umpire groupie" (he replaced yrs trly with that award) and when confronted with his errors and omissions he immediately starts quoting the bible as his defense (and that ain't Jon Bible which would be a good defense). I would happily work with Garth, Rich or Dave Hensley. I would not be comfortable on the field with John. It is my personal opinion that even moderators have the rights of posting their opinion. And I believe that Garth, Rich and Dave tell the truth. Now, back to my cave. Tee [Edited by Tim C on Oct 23rd, 2003 at 11:50 AM]
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 08:20am
|
|||
|
|||
|
I am sorry that you feel that you feel that way about me Tim since you have never seen me work a game before. I have never seen you work a game before either, but I would go on the field with you.
BTW, what is a "professional umpire groupie?" Because, I do not honestly feel that I fit that qualification.
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 11:10am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
However, could you now tell me where else in the rule book you found this rule that you got "messed up" with the pitching rules? Quote:
"I have no opinion to offer for the first part of the game. You are correct about MLB assigning the best officials for the post season. Angel has been touted as one of the top respected umpires in MLB for the last four to five years with having the honor of working the World Series last year." When asked for a reference for those four or five years of top ratings, you posted: "I read an article about a month in Sports Illustrated about players, managers, and front office people rating the MLB staff. According to this data, Hernandez was ranked among the worst umpires in the eyes of the players and managers. "But, Hernandez was ranked among the best and most respected umpires in MLB." Again, you were asked for your source on this claim and you ignored the request. Now you say you misread the order of listings in one SI article this year. What about the other four years, John? [QUOTE]In closing, Garth I find it very interesting that you, like to come out and crucify other members for things that say that may be incorrect and that is okay, but if we in turn do not agree with something you have said and we say something about it, then that is not alright. If you and other members of this post, such has Rich are so "perfect" in your officiating information, then I can safely assume that the both of you are officiating at the "professional" level currently on a full time basis. [QUOTE] I think you've gone a little overboard with your Biblical comparison's John. No one has "crucified" you. And when you disagreed with my assertion and asked for a reference, I sent it to you immediately, right? No one has claimed to be "perfect". And whatever you assume, you do so at your own peril. Rich merely asserted an opinion. He was then castigated for having one. I then gave my opinion, or guess, as to why Rich may have said we he did. And your current post continues to confirm to me what I said; and that is the manner in which you portray yourself: what you post, how you post it and your habit of making strange claims that cannot be verified and that you later walk away from, is not that which is usually associated with an experienced trainer whom rookies flock to watch. Tell me, how many experienced trainers, no matter what the alleged source, would expound that in major league baseball three hit batters would require the pitcher to leave the game? How many folks do you know would read one year's SI survey and extrapolate "four or five years" of data and results? C'mon John. You could be the best umpire in Michigan. You might be everything you claim to be. But if you are, you have to be able to see that your posts don't do you justice.
__________________
GB
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 11:36am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Garth,
I am sorry, but I do not agree with you on what you said about me. I honestly do not feel I am going over board at all with my response. I am responding with valid, honest information, admitting my mistakes that I have made. People have asked for sources that I base the information I have, I give to them. So, I do not agree with you that I ingore requests from people wanting my sources of information that I use or have used in the past. However, most of the time(notice I said most of the time) you, and Rich come out with what appears to be a "high and mighty" attitude. Honestly, I do not feel that I come across that way. I feel that I come with a very good attitude, good approach, honesty and interegity. Plus, if I am wrong, I come back and admit that I was wrong and we go on from there. But in my opinion, you and Rich continue to drag it on and on longer then it needs to be dragged on. It was simple misreading, and then misinformation on my part that got this whole thing going. I admitted I was wrong and we let it go and move on. I came on to give a newer baseball umpire a response to his original post. Then, for what ever reason(that I still do not understand), you and Rich start teeing off on me over history since I registered with this site. How does the actions by you and Rich have any thing to do with officiating? [Edited by johnSandlin on Oct 23rd, 2003 at 11:41 AM]
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 12:41pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Two Quotes Come to Mind
1. "There is none so blind, as he who will not see."
2. "If you aren't ready for the answer, don't ask the question." I have explained my posts and my opinion, John. As they say, a sign of insanity is repeatingly doing the same activity in the same way and expecting different results. I am not insane. Have a nice day. [Edited by GarthB on Oct 23rd, 2003 at 12:58 PM]
__________________
GB
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:41pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have no idea what you were trying to say in your last post Garth, but I will do the same as you did for me and bid you a good day also.
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 04:53pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
You can have all the opinions you like, of course, but when you VOLUNTEERED to moderate this board you de facto agreed to hold yourself to at least the same standard expected of everyone else - ie. no personal attacks or personal criticism. You have voluntarily assumed the role of "protector" of the board's content. If you subsequently engage in personal criticism, however provoked you may feel, you cannot later moderate the posts of others in a similar vein without appearing hypocritical. That was Jeff's point, I'm sure, and it was certainly mine. Cheers
__________________
Warren Willson
|
|
Thu Oct 23, 2003, 08:59pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yes,Warren,that was exactly my point.Just as we must do on the field,withold our personal opinions to uphold the integrety of our position of authority.I just feel the moderator should refrain from the personal attacks he is there to prevent.
Jeff
|
|
Thu Nov 06, 2003, 11:18am
|
|||
|
|||
|
And what was the original question posed in this thread? Something about a new guy seeking advice...
-Join an organization. -Go to the meetings. -Pay attention. -Go to several clinics. -Pay attention. -Practice. In your room. On the field. In the gym. -Start asking questions of experienced umpires about gear, mechanics, rules, plays, and getting along with coaches, players, fans, game and league supervisors, and umpires. -Read all of the "case" books you can get your hands on. -Read the appropriate rule books as well. -Go to games and watch the umpires - how they work as a crew as well as individual performance. Look how they dress as well. Watch how they talk with coaches and players and partners. -Get out there and do it. Falldown, get up. Learn from your mistakes, the mistakes of your partners, and the weird plays you'll see. -Don't be afraid to answer reasonable questions from coaches and players, BUT DON'T CHIT-CHAT WITH ANYONE! -Go back and continue to read the books, manuals, case plays, and rules. Once stuff happens to you on the field some of that stuff will take on a whole new light. -Go to a professional umpire school if you have a real desire to "improve and move". -Remember, even if you are new, you are already better than some other umpires. You'll also never be as good as some others, no matter how hard you work. Stay humble. -Work, work, work. -HAVE FUN!!!!
|
|
Thu Nov 06, 2003, 01:10pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Thank you JJ for bringing this topic back on point. I was tired of reading all of the negative comments made by other officials including myself.
I want to apologize to my fellow officials again for any of my conduct throughout this topic's discussion. It was wrong of me to take the route that I did in defending myself, and apologize for that. John Sandlin
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
