Stump the ump

[SamIAm]

R1, R2, R3 - 1 Out - inning of your choice. Batter swings hard for strike 2. Batter's helmet comes off and falls in front of catcher. F2 mishandles the pitch and it falls in the dirt just out of F2's reach. BRs do not attempt to advance. F2 picks up the batters helmet, and uses it to drag the ball back within F2's reach. F2 then returns ball the F1.

Any violations?
(I didn't not witness the event - I made it up on my own.)

[rcaverly]

Nope.

[Mbilica]

Don't trouble trouble. This is a whole lot of nothing. No advantage was gained.

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[Matt]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

Don't trouble trouble. This is a whole lot of nothing. No advantage was gained.

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Not the right criteria.

OBR, I have this as either being a one-base award for touching a pitched ball with detached equipment, or nothing if we take the letter of the rule that states it has to be his own equipment.

FED, I have a two-base award.

[Mbilica]

My response was not the one I would use on a test. This is not only a sasquatch question, but the penalty is so far beyond the spirit of the rule, I wouldn't consider applying a penalty unless the runner from third would have had a chance to score.

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[Matt]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

My response was not the one I would use on a test. This is not only a sasquatch question, but the penalty is so far beyond the spirit of the rule, I wouldn't consider applying a penalty unless the runner from third would have had a chance to score.

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Doesn't matter. Detached equipment is not an advantage/disadvantage rule. The penalty must always be applied.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by Matt

Doesn't matter. Detached equipment is not an advantage/disadvantage rule. The penalty must always be applied.

Im simply saying I would pass on this one. The levels where thus could possibly happen are games that are subvarsity or below. NO quality catcher would actually use a batting helmet to drag a ball towards him. It doesnt make sense.

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[Matt]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

Im simply saying I would pass on this one. The levels where thus could possibly happen are games that are subvarsity or below. NO quality catcher would actually use a batting helmet to drag a ball towards him. It doesnt make sense.

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If it's a subvarsity game, so more the reason to enforce it.

[thumpferee]

The rule states if it is a fair batted or thrown ball including a pitch. The rules also state when a pitch ends. Once the ball came to rest, which is the way I see it in the OP, the pitch ended.

Let's not forget we have a batter without a helmet on. Once there was no play being made, I'm killing it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

The rule states if it is a fair batted or thrown ball including a pitch. The rules also state when a pitch ends. Once the ball came to rest, which is the way I see it in the OP, the pitch ended.

Let's not forget we have a batter without a helmet on. Once there was no play being made, I'm killing it.

A. It's still a pitched ball.

B. You're killing it with the ball in no one's possession?

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by Matt

A. It's still a pitched ball.

B. You're killing it with the ball in no one's possession?

A. No, it was a pitched ball until it came to rest. There are 6 others I believe.

B. Yes. No different than a pitch coming in and the catcher takes one off the arm protecting you. No one moving, I'm killing it. I'm dusting off the plate taking another ball to the pitcher.

Are you saying you can't kill a play unless someone has possession of it?

I wonder if the rules makers ever played the game!? Same for officials who administer the rules. Maybe another thread coming! Nah! Already know the answer!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

A. No, it was a pitched ball until it came to rest. There are 6 others I believe.

B. Yes. No different than a pitch coming in and the catcher takes one off the arm protecting you. No one moving, I'm killing it. I'm dusting off the plate taking another ball to the pitcher.

Are you saying you can't kill a play unless someone has possession of it?

I wonder if the rules makers ever played the game!? Same for officials who administer the rules. Maybe another thread coming! Nah! Already know the answer!

Wrong on both A and B, and your implied insult.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

A. No, it was a pitched ball until it came to rest. There are 6 others I believe.

It was no longer a pitch, but it was still a pitched ball. Otherwise, under FED (which might be the only rules code to really make a distinction) you'll get some weird interps (and even FED might not be consistent in their use of it).

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by Matt

Wrong on both A and B, and your implied insult.

Sorry if you took it personally, I was not directing the comment to any one specifically. I have read a lot of your input on here and other forums and respect your opinion greatly.

I thought we were talking FED and just don't see how we cannot just kill it, by rule, when action is relaxed.

Let me ask you this. If your catcher blocks one in the dirt keeping the ball in front of him, he removes his helmet while looking at the runner/s who are not moving, slides the ball toward him or picks it up using his helmet/mask, you are going to award bases?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Sorry if you took it personally, I was not directing the comment to any one specifically. I have read a lot of your input on here and other forums and respect your opinion greatly.

I thought we were talking FED and just don't see how we cannot just kill it, by rule, when action is relaxed.

Let me ask you this. If your catcher blocks one in the dirt keeping the ball in front of him, he removes his helmet while looking at the runner/s who are not moving, slides the ball toward him or picks it up using his helmet/mask, you are going to award bases?

Absolutely. Even got this one at the college level once.