Changing an IF Fly call???

[parrothead]

Bases loaded, I think it was nobody out. So 3B was even or slightly up in "corners in". Batter hits what should be routine pop to 3B pretty high Umpire immediately calls IF Fly, but my 3B (12 yo) playing in, didnt turn proper, kind of got on heals a bit, and balls ends up falling and rolling away a bit. So runner at 3b scored, maybe even runner at 2B.

So fine, IMO batter was out because of the call and 2 runs scored and runner at 1B goes to 2B. So their coach goes to the umpire and asks for "help" on the IF fly call and they overturn their call and put the batter at 1B.

So No.1 it was not a terrible call in terms of IF fly, its not a ball that ended up out on the grass in LF it was a routine ball that our 3B misjudged and landed behind them, the point I made as to why these calls cant be overturned is that what if the misjudge went the other way, what if the 3B overran the ball it didnt get away from them? then what? I have them throw home, throw to 3B throw to 2b and then ask the umpire for help? Overturn and give me a triple play?

IMO for that very scenario, that call cannot be overruled or changed. What gives? Also, if it cant be, and umpires were, is that a protestable call? My thought was that it was because they were misinterpreting a rule which was changing a call they could not but they said the initial call was judgement so not protestable.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

Bases loaded, I think it was nobody out. So 3B was even or slightly up in "corners in". Batter hits what should be routine pop to 3B pretty high Umpire immediately calls IF Fly, but my 3B (12 yo) playing in, didnt turn proper, kind of got on heals a bit, and balls ends up falling and rolling away a bit. So runner at 3b scored, maybe even runner at 2B.

So fine, IMO batter was out because of the call and 2 runs scored and runner at 1B goes to 2B. So their coach goes to the umpire and asks for "help" on the IF fly call and they overturn their call and put the batter at 1B.

So No.1 it was not a terrible call in terms of IF fly, its not a ball that ended up out on the grass in LF it was a routine ball that our 3B misjudged and landed behind them, the point I made as to why these calls cant be overturned is that what if the misjudge went the other way, what if the 3B overran the ball it didnt get away from them? then what? I have them throw home, throw to 3B throw to 2b and then ask the umpire for help? Overturn and give me a triple play?

IMO for that very scenario, that call cannot be overruled or changed. What gives? Also, if it cant be, and umpires were, is that a protestable call? My thought was that it was because they were misinterpreting a rule which was changing a call they could not but they said the initial call was judgement so not protestable.

The call can be overturned.

They did it the right way.

If they do NOT call an IFF when they should there can be no DP or TP awarded if it's overturned. The purpose of the rule is to prevent the defense from getting a cheap DP or TP.

In any event, the ONLY thing an IFF call does is make the batter out, ending any force plays. Everything else is as on any ordinary fly ball. Ball is live. Runners can run. Must tag first if it was caught. etc.

[parrothead]

I understand exactly why provision is in place, its the same reason why force play occupied of 1st less than 2 you have the uncaught 3rd strike (often referred to as dropped 3rd), so that with bases loaded and nobody out C doesnt drop 3rd strike step on home throw to 3B throw to 2B for easy triple play.

My point is that once the call is made the runners dont have to go they go at their own risk, so in the scenario that happened where the IF call WAS made, what if the runners didnt go and the defense plays the play out just like the offense did gets a double or triple play and asks the umpires to reconsider whether or not it was an IF fly?

[MT 73]

Personally I would not have overturned the call.
The rule states that the ball must be capable of being caught with reasonable effort.
If the fielder misjudged it then so be it.
Yes, perhaps the umpire called it too early but changing it opens up a can of worms.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by parrothead

So No.1 it was not a terrible call in terms of IF fly,

That's your judgment. IF the umpire judged that it wasn't really an infield fly (i.e., his original call was in error), then he can fix it.

I wasn't there, so I can't say whether the change was right or whether the original call was right.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by parrothead

I understand exactly why provision is in place, its the same reason why force play occupied of 1st less than 2 you have the uncaught 3rd strike (often referred to as dropped 3rd), so that with bases loaded and nobody out C doesnt drop 3rd strike step on home throw to 3B throw to 2B for easy triple play.

My point is that once the call is made the runners dont have to go they go at their own risk, so in the scenario that happened where the IF call WAS made, what if the runners didnt go and the defense plays the play out just like the offense did gets a double or triple play and asks the umpires to reconsider whether or not it was an IF fly?

Read the part about not allowing a DP or TP.

[parrothead]

Thanks Guys makes sense...so in a scenario if its not called and should have been and lets say defense gets a double play out of it offense could go and say should have been called, batter is out but runners can be returned?

It was funny, we actually got the worst of it both ways on that call in two games in close proximity, and I realize the younger the players the tougher the call because a lot of times the balls are not hit that high so you are having to make a quick judgement on player, ball, etc.

So the one as stated above and then two games later 1B in front of base our guy hits a pop up, their 1B freezes with his hand in the air ump calls IF and the ball literally lands 10 feet behind him on the OF grass and he was almost on the IF grass. We had bases loaded and 1 out, 2 runs scored after it fell and runner ended up at 3B and our batter ended up at 2B, but was out and when I asked him to ask for help, they said they couldnt overturn it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by parrothead

because a lot of times the balls are not hit that high

Then it's likely not an infield fly.

Based on the two plays that you describe, perhaps your league should remove this rule.

[parrothead]

The league did in that division (or actually coaches just agreed to ask the ump not to call IF fly in our division)

The one where we were on defense was actually in a tournament, that was a pretty high pop, my 3B just didnt drop step but their proximity at the balls height should of resulted in a camp out catch.