Wind-up restrictions

[bossman72]

MLB rules. Today, had a pitcher that took 2 "rocker steps" to the side in the windup prior to stepping toward home. Hoping to be preventative, I told the catcher on the 2nd pitch of the game that he should tell the pitcher that if he does that with runners on base it will be a balk. Catcher said "he knows, obviously".

Sure enough with bases loaded, he takes 2 rocker steps and I balk it. Catcher thought I was talking about when the pitcher is in the set position when I mentioned it earlier.

My question is: did I correctly not call anything with nobody on base? Should this have been an illegal pitch and a ball?

[bob jenkins]

You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bossman72

MLB rules. Today, had a pitcher that took 2 "rocker steps" to the side in the windup prior to stepping toward home. Hoping to be preventative, I told the catcher on the 2nd pitch of the game that he should tell the pitcher that if he does that with runners on base it will be a balk. Catcher said "he knows, obviously".

Sure enough with bases loaded, he takes 2 rocker steps and I balk it. Catcher thought I was talking about when the pitcher is in the set position when I mentioned it earlier.

My question is: did I correctly not call anything with nobody on base? Should this have been an illegal pitch and a ball?

When they are doing something screwy in whatever code don't call it until you can balk a run in. E.g. Japanese windup, leave it alone all game long until you can balk R3 in.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.

Agreed!

Was going to start new thread on wind up restrictions, but since I'm here, hope you all don't mind.

Any rule set.

Pitcher in wind up position with hands together and steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands? Ex:simulating a pitch?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.

OBR you can take one step to the side and one step to home. This player took two steps to the side before going home. I know these are hard to explain without video.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Agreed!

Was going to start new thread on wind up restrictions, but since I'm here, hope you all don't mind.

Any rule set.

Pitcher in wind up position with hands together and steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands? Ex:simulating a pitch?

Yes, at some point before he engages the rubber in the set. No if he engages in the windup. Not really clear in the rules but why would you care?

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Yes, at some point before he engages the rubber in the set. No if he engages in the windup. Not really clear in the rules but why would you care?

maybe I should clarify.

Runners on, pitcher in wind up position with hands together, steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands when doing so? if not, would it be simulating a pitch?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

maybe I should clarify.

Runners on, pitcher in wind up position with hands together, steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands when doing so? if not, would it be simulating a pitch?

So far, this is nothing.

It's not simulating a pitch. And, while he does need to separate his hands, he doesn't need to do so until he re-engages the rubber. If he attempts to reengage the rubber before separating the hands, it's just a "don't do that."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

OBR you can take one step to the side and one step to home. This player took two steps to the side before going home. I know these are hard to explain without video.

Please describe in more detail the movement of the free foot.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot, then shifted the weigh back to the free foot (even if the free foot came off the ground a bit), it's nothing.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot and lifted the free foot up to (or significantly toward) the balance point, then put the free foot back down, you might have something.

[john5396]

As far as the philosophy of waiting for the violation to be a balk, rather than the specifics of the call. For NFHS I would equate to the hybrid stance. I always try to call the illegal pitch when I see it. I don't want to wait for the pitcher to use the wind up with runners on, since there is an R3 at that time. I want to give the coach a chance to correct the illegal habit before it costs them a run.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Please describe in more detail the movement of the free foot.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot, then shifted the weigh back to the free foot (even if the free foot came off the ground a bit), it's nothing.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot and lifted the free foot up to (or significantly toward) the balance point, then put the free foot back down, you might have something.

The move was more like your first example with a definite step when the weight was shifted back to the free foot a second time.

To me, the second step commits him to pitch since you can only take one step to the side per 5.07(a)(1). It's also not "without interruption or alteration."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

The move was more like your first example with a definite step when the weight was shifted back to the free foot a second time.

Without seeing it, then, I would just judge it to be an additional "pump" and allow it.

Note that F1 has started his pitching motion, so the runners won't be disadvantaged by this move (if they want, they can get a great jump)