The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 03:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,226
Wind-up restrictions

MLB rules. Today, had a pitcher that took 2 "rocker steps" to the side in the windup prior to stepping toward home. Hoping to be preventative, I told the catcher on the 2nd pitch of the game that he should tell the pitcher that if he does that with runners on base it will be a balk. Catcher said "he knows, obviously".

Sure enough with bases loaded, he takes 2 rocker steps and I balk it. Catcher thought I was talking about when the pitcher is in the set position when I mentioned it earlier.

My question is: did I correctly not call anything with nobody on base? Should this have been an illegal pitch and a ball?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 06:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,614
You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 09:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
MLB rules. Today, had a pitcher that took 2 "rocker steps" to the side in the windup prior to stepping toward home. Hoping to be preventative, I told the catcher on the 2nd pitch of the game that he should tell the pitcher that if he does that with runners on base it will be a balk. Catcher said "he knows, obviously".

Sure enough with bases loaded, he takes 2 rocker steps and I balk it. Catcher thought I was talking about when the pitcher is in the set position when I mentioned it earlier.

My question is: did I correctly not call anything with nobody on base? Should this have been an illegal pitch and a ball?
When they are doing something screwy in whatever code don't call it until you can balk a run in. E.g. Japanese windup, leave it alone all game long until you can balk R3 in.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 09:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NeverNeverLand
Posts: 1,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.
Agreed!

Was going to start new thread on wind up restrictions, but since I'm here, hope you all don't mind.

Any rule set.

Pitcher in wind up position with hands together and steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands? Ex:simulating a pitch?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 09:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
You're allowed to make two "pumps" form the windup in FED and NCAA. It's not defined in OBR.

My take (at least as I am envisioning the play) -- it's nothing.
OBR you can take one step to the side and one step to home. This player took two steps to the side before going home. I know these are hard to explain without video.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 30, 2017, 11:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
Agreed!

Was going to start new thread on wind up restrictions, but since I'm here, hope you all don't mind.

Any rule set.

Pitcher in wind up position with hands together and steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands? Ex:simulating a pitch?
Yes, at some point before he engages the rubber in the set. No if he engages in the windup. Not really clear in the rules but why would you care?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 12:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NeverNeverLand
Posts: 1,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
Yes, at some point before he engages the rubber in the set. No if he engages in the windup. Not really clear in the rules but why would you care?
maybe I should clarify.

Runners on, pitcher in wind up position with hands together, steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands when doing so? if not, would it be simulating a pitch?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 07:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
maybe I should clarify.

Runners on, pitcher in wind up position with hands together, steps back off the rubber. Does he need to separate his hands when doing so? if not, would it be simulating a pitch?
So far, this is nothing.

It's not simulating a pitch. And, while he does need to separate his hands, he doesn't need to do so until he re-engages the rubber. If he attempts to reengage the rubber before separating the hands, it's just a "don't do that."
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 07:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
OBR you can take one step to the side and one step to home. This player took two steps to the side before going home. I know these are hard to explain without video.
Please describe in more detail the movement of the free foot.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot, then shifted the weigh back to the free foot (even if the free foot came off the ground a bit), it's nothing.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot and lifted the free foot up to (or significantly toward) the balance point, then put the free foot back down, you might have something.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 07:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 177
As far as the philosophy of waiting for the violation to be a balk, rather than the specifics of the call. For NFHS I would equate to the hybrid stance. I always try to call the illegal pitch when I see it. I don't want to wait for the pitcher to use the wind up with runners on, since there is an R3 at that time. I want to give the coach a chance to correct the illegal habit before it costs them a run.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 08:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Please describe in more detail the movement of the free foot.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot, then shifted the weigh back to the free foot (even if the free foot came off the ground a bit), it's nothing.

If F1 stepped to the side (putting the weight on the free foot), then shifted the weigh back to the pivot and lifted the free foot up to (or significantly toward) the balance point, then put the free foot back down, you might have something.
The move was more like your first example with a definite step when the weight was shifted back to the free foot a second time.

To me, the second step commits him to pitch since you can only take one step to the side per 5.07(a)(1). It's also not "without interruption or alteration."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 01, 2017, 09:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
The move was more like your first example with a definite step when the weight was shifted back to the free foot a second time.
Without seeing it, then, I would just judge it to be an additional "pump" and allow it.

Note that F1 has started his pitching motion, so the runners won't be disadvantaged by this move (if they want, they can get a great jump)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wind During IFF Manny A Softball 25 Mon Mar 25, 2013 09:19am
No bat restrictions? WestMichiganBlue Softball 17 Wed Jul 08, 2009 08:39am
Would You Wind It? OverAndBack Football 10 Mon Sep 29, 2008 03:58pm
Gone is the Wind Carl Childress Baseball 10 Tue Dec 13, 2005 05:20pm
Restrictions TRetzer Baseball 1 Tue May 11, 2004 07:31pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1