Going to mouth

[northbendon]

Pitcher going to mouth wipes off while on rubber with no runners on ...ball on batter... with runners on from the set balk... What if from windup like if a runner on third... ball on batter or balk ?

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[bob jenkins]

Balk.

[northbendon]

Thanks ...that's what I thought


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[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by northbendon

Pitcher going to mouth wipes off while on rubber with no runners on ...ball on batter... with runners on from the set balk... What if from windup like if a runner on third... ball on batter or balk ?

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NorthBendon:

1) I just returned from my Spring Break umpiring trip to Florida with MTD, Jr., just in time to watch the start of the Kansas-Austen Peay game: ROCK CHALK JAY HAWK!! KAAAAYYYY UUUUUU!! And my books are in the van, but I know the answer to your question with regards to NFHS Baseball Rules.

2) I am going to edit your question so that you situation can properly be discussed.


Play #1: F1 engages the Pitcher's Plate in the Wind-up Position and has yet to bring his hands together. It does not matter whether there are no Runner(s) on the Base(s) or Runner(s) are on the Base(s), as long as F1 wipes his hand before touching the ball, no rules infraction has occurred.

Play #2: F1 engages the Pitcher's Plate in the Set Position (and from the wording of your question I assume that he is still in his Pre-Stretch Position. a) With no Runner(s) on the Base(s) this is an Illegal Pitch and a Ball is awarded to the Batter. b) With Runner(s) on the Base(s) this is a Balk. More importantly, it is not the act of going to the mouth that is not the infraction of the rules in Play #2. The infraction is starting his Stretch and not going to the Set position in one continuous motion.

Since we have not unpacked the van yet, I cannot quote the exact Casebook Plays but there are two Casebook Plays that cover your situation.

MTD, Sr.

[rcaverly]

NFHS...

6.2.1 SITUATION A: With no runners on base, F1 places his pitching hand on his mouth and distinctly wipes off his pitching hand prior to touching the ball, (a) while not touching the pitcher’s plate, (b) while touching the pitcher’s plate. RULING: (a) Legal; (b) illegal, and a ball shall be awarded to the batter’s count.

6.2.1 SITUATION B: With R1 at first, F1 places his pitching hand on his mouth and distinctly wipes off his pitching hand prior to touching the ball (a) while not touching the pitcher’s plate or (b) while touching the pitcher’s plate in the set position. RULING: Legal in (a). In (b), the pitcher has balked and R1 is awarded second base. (6-1-3)

[bob jenkins]

Thank you rcaverly. You saved me the trouble of looking up the cases to refute MTD's first play.

[Rita C]

I don't have time to look it up right now but things have changed in the OBR regarding this rule.

Rita

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rita C

I don't have time to look it up right now but things have changed in the OBR regarding this rule.

Rita

Yes -- I was assuming FED -- and in re-reading the question, I'm not sure why I made that assumption.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes -- I was assuming FED -- and in re-reading the question, I'm not sure why I made that assumption.

You assumed FED because no other code would have a balk penalty for going to the mouth and rationalize it with their absurd rationale.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Thank you rcaverly. You saved me the trouble of looking up the cases to refute MTD's first play.

Why? He's right. 6-1-3 only applies to the set position.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Matt

Why? He's right. 6-1-3 only applies to the set position.

I don't like their rationale but I think they want a balk when a pitcher in contact goes to his mouth with runners on.

2008
SITUATION 6: While on the pitcher's plate in the windup position, the pitcher has both hands at his side or both hands together in front of his body. He brings his pitching hand to his mouth and then distinctly wipes it off. RULING: This is an illegal pitch. Each runner on base would be awarded one base. If the bases were empty, a ball would be awarded to the batter. (6-1-2 Penalty)



SITUATION 7: While on the pitching plate in the stretch position, the pitcher has the ball in his glove hand and his pitching hand is at his side or has hands together in front of his body. He brings his pitching hand to his mouth, distinctly wipes it off and returns it to his side. RULING: This is an illegal pitch by the pitcher. A balk will be called if there are runners on base. If the bases are empty, a ball will be awarded to the batter. (6-1-3 Penalty)



2013 rulebook POE:Going to the mouth while in contact with the pitcher’s plate is a balk, not because the pitcher goes to his mouth, but because the action simulates the start of the pitching motion.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You assumed FED because no other code would have a balk penalty for going to the mouth and rationalize it with their absurd rationale.

Like I said, Jim, the rule has changed in OBR. I'm off to a game. I'll look it up when I get home.

Rita

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Like I said, Jim, the rule has changed in OBR. I'm off to a game. I'll look it up when I get home.

Rita

The change to the OBR rule that involved a balk was doctoring the ball with runners on. Going to the mouth improperly changed to a warning and then a ball. Not a balk.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by umpjim

The change to the OBR rule that involved a balk was doctoring the ball with runners on. Going to the mouth improperly changed to a warning and then a ball. Not a balk.

Yes! I had read that a few months ago but couldn't remember which part it applied to! I just found it.

All I could remember was that something had changed.

Thanks!

Rita

[bob jenkins]

I think the change also allows the pitcher to go to the mouth while on the dirt circle, as long as he wipes before going to the ball.

Before, any going to the mouth while on the dirt circle was an immediate ball.