Force or not?

[chapmaja]

I had this play in a girls coach pitch game a while ago.

Bases loaded, 1 out. Batter hits a ball that lands in the batters box, but in fair territory. Catcher steps out from behind the plate, and as she tags the runner steps on the plate. The contact with the plate and contact of the tag appear to be simultaneous. I call a double play, to which the batting teams coach does not agree. First, he argues it was a foul ball, something he could not see from the pitchers plate area. Then he argues it should just be an out on the batter because she was tagged before the catcher stepped on the plate. Finally he argues that it should be a force out, but the batter should be awarded first. After the final argument I told him to head to the dugout and bring his defense out. At least his first two arguments had some validity, but the third was pure foolishness.

[RKBUmp]

Your judgement as to which happened first, if catcher stepped on plate then tagged BR you have a double play. If BR was tagged and then plate stepped on you only have 1 out.

[UmpireErnie]

OMG it's "coach pitch" I think the coach could spend more time teaching fundamentals to the young newbies rather than make stupid arguments. I mean, just award the BR first? Why? Because she is to cute to be out?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

First, he argues it was a foul ball, something he could not see from the pitchers plate area. Then .

Foul Territory: That part of the playing field outside the first and third base lines from home plate to the bottom of the home-run fence and perpendicularly upward.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

OMG it's "coach pitch" I think the coach could spend more time teaching fundamentals to the young newbies rather than make stupid arguments. I mean, just award the BR first? Why? Because she is to cute to be out?

WTF is there an umpire for in a coach-pitch game?

This is the part of the stupidity these parents have fallen into in the great chase for the carrot

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

WTF is there an umpire for in a coach-pitch game?

This is the part of the stupidity these parents have fallen into in the great chase for the carrot

The basic reason for sports officials is because the participants don't always agree about what happens.

Unfortunately, to some it matters, even at that level.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The basic reason for sports officials is because the participants don't always agree about what happens. Unfortunately, to some it matters even at that level.

The local LL fixed that.
Every kid gets on base every inning.
Everyone scores every inning.
And they do not keep score.
My grandson had a ball. He learned something about the FUNdamentals of the game and learned about being part of a team.
While I'm not generally a LL fan, the local folks did a terrific job.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The basic reason for sports officials is because the participants don't always agree about what happens.

Unfortunately, to some it matters, even at that level.

I really don't care, it is a waste of valuable resources. Since most of these organizations have more than two teams, they should either be using parents of the teams or players from the upper levels. If an organization truly wants to train people and better the game, this is a good way to do it.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I really don't care, it is a waste of valuable resources. Since most of these organizations have more than two teams, they should either be using parents of the teams or players from the upper levels. If an organization truly wants to train people and better the game, this is a good way to do it.

I wasn't justifying the hiring, just commenting on life. That's why I said "unfortunately".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

WTF is there an umpire for in a coach-pitch game?

This is the part of the stupidity these parents have fallen into in the great chase for the carrot

Wow. We have TWO umpires for coach-pitch games around here.

These kids/parents pay the same as everyone else, play for trophies, have all-star games... why in the world should they not have umpires for their games?

(And I would offer that new umpires will learn MORE at these games than at 14U, 18U, etc - rules that never come into play in older games often do at 10U or 8U)

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

(And I would offer that new umpires will learn MORE at these games than at 14U, 18U, etc - rules that never come into play in older games often do at 10U or 8U)

+1. The 10U and 12U rec games I do for our association challenge me more when it comes to rules knowledge.

As a parent, I would prefer trained umpires over coaches/parents calling games for the young children. Those girls need to learn the rules as much as they need to work on their skills, and they won't get that knowledge from "non-umpires" on the field.

And eventually, I'll see some of those coaches as they follow their DDs into 14U and higher. I would much rather they learn the rules at the lower levels than have to deal with them in weekend ASA tourneys.

[CecilOne]

Let's remember that those amateur umpires, parents coaches or whoever; might very well become paid umpires later, good way to recruit. I started in 8-9 LL as a parent.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

+1. The 10U and 12U rec games I do for our association challenge me more when it comes to rules knowledge.

As a parent, I would prefer trained umpires over coaches/parents calling games for the young children. Those girls need to learn the rules as much as they need to work on their skills, and they won't get that knowledge from "non-umpires" on the field.

And eventually, I'll see some of those coaches as they follow their DDs into 14U and higher. I would much rather they learn the rules at the lower levels than have to deal with them in weekend ASA tourneys.

I'd rather see them worry about teaching the players and if they are still in need of the coach to pitch, they are still at a level where they need work. And just how many play straight rules?



Personal Opinion - I think it is a joke treating some of the lower levels of sport they way many of these organizations do. I don't see a need to force competition on children before they actually learn the game.

I know when I was young, it discouraged almost as many as it encouraged others to stay with it and that was before every kid HAD to be a winner and get a trophy. But that wasn't the problem. The problem was the adults. I like the idea of using the 14-16 teaching the kids the basics and kick the adults to the curb. I think when the time comes for competition, the kids will be more prepared than being thrown to the wolves early on.

Like I said, JMO.