ASA - erasing a line

[Andy]

Situation presented to me by a friend.

ASA Men's SP - PU (my friend) calls a batter out for having one foot completely out of the batter's box when he contacts the ball. Next batter steps into the box and begins erasing the front batter's box line with his foot. PU calls a penalty strike. After the game, he looks in the ASA book and does not find a rule that allows a strike to be called for this specific action, unlike the NFHS and NCAA rulings.

I advise him that since the actions of the batter (erasing the line) is most likely due to the batter not liking the out call on the previous batter, his action of erasing the line could be considered unsportsman like conduct. PU should warn the batter to stop or be subject to ejection. I don't know that I like this option, but at the same time, the batter's actions are intended to "show up" the umpire and probably need to be addressed.

Your thoughts and/or comments?

[NCASAUmp]

If he does it as a response to the PU's call, he'll be lucky to stay in the game.

[AtlUmpSteve]

How about:

"Thanks. Now all decisions regarding in and out of the box are not only my judgment, but completely arbitrary since you took that pain-in-the-*** line out."

Other than smart-*** remarks, I believe you have it right, Andy.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Players are under the impression that if there are no lines for a batters box then there is no batter's box. Of course we all know better. So ask the batter, "since the fair line no longer goes all the way out to the fair pole does that mean that line doesn't exist also?". I called a batter out for stepping out of the box when he made contact with the ball when there were no lines. He of course argued. I told him and his teamates that if they insisted that I draw a batter's box for each subsequent batter that I would have to go to my truck to get a tape measure and measure the box exactly for each batter so that I would be sure to get the call right. And once we had done that for each batter they would have about 10 minutes of playing time. "Which would you prefer gentlemen? Play ball or me draw?"

We played ball...go figure.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

How about:

"Thanks. Now all decisions regarding in and out of the box are not only my judgment, but completely arbitrary since you took that pain-in-the-*** line out."

Other than smart-*** remarks, I believe you have it right, Andy.

This did cross my mind Steve...funny how great(?) minds think alike!!!!

[MD Longhorn]

Love it when umpires make stuff up. There's no penalty strike for this. I know a lot of guys that would eject for this and not feel bad about it in the morning. If he was trying to show me up, I might join them. If not ... what line? Call what they do - you know where the boundary of the batters box is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

How about:

"Thanks. Now all decisions regarding in and out of the box are not only my judgment, but completely arbitrary since you took that pain-in-the-*** line out."

Other than smart-*** remarks, I believe you have it right, Andy.

Pretty much what I told a catcher in the Armored Forces Championships some years back.

The catcher pointed out that the batter was wiping out the lines of the BB as if expecting me to do something. I said something along the line of, "Ain't that great?". The catcher got a strange look on his face. So I finished, "Yeah, now he cannot complaing when I call him out for being out of the box!" Now the batter had a look of disbelief on his face. Didn't have a problem the rest of the game or the tournament.

I would not eject a player for this, that would just add fuel to the fire.

[ronald]

How many would go for (after lines erased) ump going to the coach with lineup card out and saying coach I need a batter for the guy that just erased the lines. He is gone for unsporting conduct.

I do like what andy has mentioned as a way to handle it too. I do not think I could pull off Steve's but I think I will keep it in the back of my mind and try it when a situation arises.

[EsqUmp]

The rule book defines when a strike can be called. In most codes, there is no provision allowing for a strike to be called as a result of an offensive member erasing a line. The rule book does, however, have a way with dealing with unsporting behavior. Regardless of the reason the player erased the line, HE SHOULDN'T BE ERASING THE LINES. What provision in the book permits that? The rule book empowers umpires to make ruling on issues not directly covered within the rule book. Arguably (or maybe not so arguably), this is one of those times. I would eject the player immediately for doing it. In the very least, you send the message to everyone else to leave the lines alone. If they were supposed to be erased, they wouldn't have drawn them in the first place.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

The rule book defines when a strike can be called. In most codes, there is no provision allowing for a strike to be called as a result of an offensive member erasing a line. The rule book does, however, have a way with dealing with unsporting behavior. Regardless of the reason the player erased the line, HE SHOULDN'T BE ERASING THE LINES. What provision in the book permits that? The rule book empowers umpires to make ruling on issues not directly covered within the rule book. Arguably (or maybe not so arguably), this is one of those times. I would eject the player immediately for doing it. In the very least, you send the message to everyone else to leave the lines alone. If they were supposed to be erased, they wouldn't have drawn them in the first place.

Now that you have started posting, how about some geography and credentials in your profile or at least in an introductory post. We know who is authoritative on here, but we don't know if you are for real.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Now that you have started posting, how about some geography and credentials in your profile or at least in an introductory post. We know who is authoritative on here, but we don't know if you are for real.

Which is not to say that your opinions aren't welcome. We just want to get to know each other here, is all.

I'm Dave, and I call ASA SP (and now FP) in NC.

[gumpire]

I called a batter out for out-of-batter's-box in a tournament and his teams response was that since there were no lines, there was no batter's box.

My reply - so if we wipe out the base/foul lines are there no foul balls?

[argodad]

Originally Posted by gumpire

I called a batter out for out-of-batter's-box in a tournament and his teams response was that since there were no lines, there was no batter's box.

My reply - so if we wipe out the base/foul lines are there no foul balls?

With or without lines ... there's always a batter's box. And I know where it is because I studied the book.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by ronald

How many would go for (after lines erased) ump going to the coach with lineup card out and saying coach I need a batter for the guy that just erased the lines. He is gone for unsporting conduct.

Not me in this case.

Though the "lineup card" tool is good to have if needed, I think I'd only pull that out in a youth game(depending on the sitch).
These are adults, a message needs to be sent, and having his coach tell him he's been silently kicked out will cause a larger negative reaction....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

The rule book defines when a strike can be called. In most codes, there is no provision allowing for a strike to be called as a result of an offensive member erasing a line. The rule book does, however, have a way with dealing with unsporting behavior. Regardless of the reason the player erased the line, HE SHOULDN'T BE ERASING THE LINES. What provision in the book permits that? The rule book empowers umpires to make ruling on issues not directly covered within the rule book. Arguably (or maybe not so arguably), this is one of those times. I would eject the player immediately for doing it. In the very least, you send the message to everyone else to leave the lines alone. If they were supposed to be erased, they wouldn't have drawn them in the first place.

Well, I couldn't disagree more. The lines are irrelevant to the rules. They are a helpful guide. Calling a penalty for someone removing the lines is OOO, even in the associations which provide for such penalties.