Suggested Mechanic Change

[chayce]

Based on a play that occurred in a local high school game, there may be a better way to make sure this kind of mistake doesn't happen. Here is a link to the play:

YouTube - Last second shot denied by refs; fchs vs henry clay 2010

(you can also see the play from another angle at www.ckysports.com)

Observations:

1. Trail has responsibility for and does make the ruling on the last second shot.
2. Trail was also the longest distance away from the shot.
3. "C" no doubt had the best look; however, did not come to Trail after the signal.
4. Three person crew did not get together after the shot becaue "C" and "L" did not have absolute knowledge to share with "T".

Possible Suggestion:

I think last second shot coverage is an area that could be changed so that the official responsible for the shot is the official responsible for the primary out of which the shot is attempted. In this case, the shot would have been "C"'s all the way and would have eliminated the need for Trail to look through five players to the opposite block. Curious to see what you think about this coverage responsiblity...thanks.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chayce

Based on a play that occurred in a local high school game, there may be a better way to make sure this kind of mistake doesn't happen. Here is a link to the play:

YouTube - Last second shot denied by refs; fchs vs henry clay 2010

(you can also see the play from another angle at www.ckysports.com)

Observations:

1. Trail has responsibility for and does make the ruling on the last second shot.
2. Trail was also the longest distance away from the shot.
3. "C" no doubt had the best look; however, did not come to Trail after the signal.
4. Three person crew did not get together after the shot becaue "C" and "L" did not have absolute knowledge to share with "T".

Possible Suggestion:

I think last second shot coverage is an area that could be changed so that the official responsible for the shot is the official responsible for the primary out of which the shot is attempted. In this case, the shot would have been "C"'s all the way and would have eliminated the need for Trail to look through five players to the opposite block. Curious to see what you think about this coverage responsiblity...thanks.

If C and T didn't have absolute knowledge, then how would changing this responsibility help?

T has the responsibility and has to have better clock awareness. The ball was up on the board when the light went on / horn went off, so even if he didn't see the hands, he should've been able to put it together. I don't see why changing the mechanic should be the goal instead of better awareness by the person responsible.

If you can't tell, I think putting it in the hands of the primary official is a horrible idea. The responsibility could change multiple times in the last few seconds and also what happens if the shot is taken from a gray area?

[just another ref]

I think it is infinitely better if the call belongs to one official or the other. This eliminates, the whole "I thought he had it," scenario. That being said, whoever has the primary responsibility is free to ask for help if needed. Looks like that was the case here. I think the guy relaxed on the missed shot and was totally surprised by the second attempt. From where I'm sitting, this was good and was not even close.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

From where I'm sitting, this was good and was not even close.

There is no question that it was good.

I was able to pause the video at a time when the backboard lights were not on, but the ball was high in the air on the putback attempt. (:31 seconds on the video clip)

The ball is level with the top of the square when the lights come on.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There is no question that it was good.

I was able to pause the video at a time when the backboard lights were not on, but the ball was high in the air on the putback attempt. (:31 seconds on the video clip)

The ball is level with the top of the square when the lights come on.

Nv,

Is a last second shot determined by horn or by the lights on a backboard? I don't do HS anymore so please let me know if this has changed. Thanks.

[APG]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Nv,

Is a last second shot determined by horn or by the lights on a backboard? I don't do HS anymore so please let me know if this has changed. Thanks.

One of the rule changes this year was allowing the light to be used this year, and I believe we use that when available.

Rule 5-6-2...Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

Rule 1-14 Red/LED Light, Audible Signal
A red light behind each backboard or an LED light on each backboard is permitted to signal that time has expired for a quarter or extra period. In facilities without a red light behind or an LED light on each backboard, the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by chayce

Based on a play that occurred in a local high school game, there may be a better way to make sure this kind of mistake doesn't happen. Here is a link to the play:

YouTube - Last second shot denied by refs; fchs vs henry clay 2010

(you can also see the play from another angle at CKYSports.com - High School Sports Broadcast Network)

Observations:

1. Trail has responsibility for and does make the ruling on the last second shot.
2. Trail was also the longest distance away from the shot.
3. "C" no doubt had the best look; however, did not come to Trail after the signal.
4. Three person crew did not get together after the shot becaue "C" and "L" did not have absolute knowledge to share with "T".

Possible Suggestion:

I think last second shot coverage is an area that could be changed so that the official responsible for the shot is the official responsible for the primary out of which the shot is attempted. In this case, the shot would have been "C"'s all the way and would have eliminated the need for Trail to look through five players to the opposite block. Curious to see what you think about this coverage responsiblity...thanks.

Everyone has to have an opinion on a last second shot...especially one that is shot in the lane. The crew needs to come together and get the call right. This is why we get together during timeouts late in the game and discuss situations just like this.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Everyone has to have an opinion on a last second shot...especially one that is shot in the lane. The crew needs to come together and get the call right. This is why we get together during timeouts late in the game and discuss situations just like this.

Everyone can have an opinion but there is only one that matters in the heat of the moment. It's the C/T opposite the table. If you can't trust your partner during that last second shot, you aren't a good team member. There is absolutely no reason to get together on a last second shot (unless your partner falls down and pokes himself in both eyes simultaneously).

-Josh

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Everyone can have an opinion but there is only one that matters in the heat of the moment. It's the C/T opposite the table. If you can't trust your partner during that last second shot, you aren't a good team member. There is absolutely no reason to get together on a last second shot (unless your partner falls down and pokes himself in both eyes simultaneously).

-Josh

I agree. I don't see any reason to have any more than two sets of eyes on that last second shot; and if it's in the primary of the official with last shot responsibility, there should only be one set of eyes on it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I agree. I don't see any reason to have any more than two sets of eyes on that last second shot; and if it's in the primary of the official with last shot responsibility, there should only be one set of eyes on it.

I worked a game this season with 2 officials who both have "D3 National Championship" on their resumes'. The C opposite table had a last second shot in his primary at the end of the first half. He did not wave off the shot even though it came after the buzzer. The shot was missed so no big deal.

In the locker room at halftime we discussed the play and the C said he got focused on a possible foul and asked if he got it right as far as not waving the shot off. Both I (Trail tableside) and the Lead said it was clearly released after the horn. The C said "then I hope you 2 would have came to me had the shot gone in because we all should have an opinion on a last second shot". The Lead pretty much echoed those sentiments.

So, there are different schools of thought on the matter. Wear the appropriate toga is what I say.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I worked a game this season with 2 officials who both have "D3 National Championship" on their resumes'. The C opposite table had a last second shot in his primary at the end of the first half. He did not wave off the shot even though it came after the buzzer. The shot was missed so no big deal.

In the locker room at halftime we discussed the play and the C said he got focused on a possible foul and asked if he got it right as far as not waving the shot off. Both I (Trail tableside) and the Lead said it was clearly released after the horn. The C said "then I hope you 2 would have came to me had the shot gone in because we all should have an opinion on a last second shot". The Lead pretty much echoed those sentiments.

So, there are different schools of thought on the matter. Wear the appropriate toga is what I say.

I understand the concept but what I don't understand is how it's ever going to look like you know what the heck you're doing if you wave off a basket, then get together and count it. I don't think that this situation is equivalent with an out-of-bounds call that you are 110% that the lead got wrong....People make mistakes and sometimes we have to live with those mistakes.

-Josh

[jalons]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Everyone can have an opinion but there is only one that matters in the heat of the moment. It's the C/T opposite the table. If you can't trust your partner during that last second shot, you aren't a good team member. There is absolutely no reason to get together on a last second shot (unless your partner falls down and pokes himself in both eyes simultaneously).

-Josh

So if you are the C in the OP and have 100% knowledge that the shot was released in time and should count, you are going to keep that information from your partner because you want to be a good team member? If you have information in this instance, you need to share it. I wouldn't want my name associated with the CREW who screwed that up. You can always count on an opinion from me on a last second shot and I would expect the same from my partners, just in case......