Summer Tourney Situations

[devdog69]

Just want to run a few of these by all of you before I go diggin in the rule book. Fyi, if it matters, the level of ball was 11-12th grade girls.

1. A1 shoots and makes basket and is fouled. Some dummy administering free throw who has done 19 games already during the weekend tells the players "two shots ladies". A1 misses free throws and everyone just stands there, except A2 who rebounds and lays it in. I ruled no basket, went to the arrow and got the ball back into play quickly. Right or Wrong?

2. A1 shoots and is fouled by B2 (her fifth foul). Foul is reported and table fails to notify officials of B2's DQ. Just as A1 is releasing her first free throw the table buzzes the horn. What's the call here? Does it matter if she makes or misses the free throw? I wasn't in this game and luckily she made it so it wasn't an issue but it did bring up a discussion.

3. I was watching this one too. Jump ball to start overtime, teams line up going the wrong direction. A1 taps to A2 who streaks for a layup, misses and one of the officials blow the whistle realizing they are going the wrong way and they rejump. It worked out fine because she had missed the layup but if it would have went in, I'm guessing it would have hit the fan. I know how I would have handled this but would like some of your thoughts.

4. Since I don't work a lot of summer ball, wanted to get some opinions on how much crap you take from coaches and players in relation to your threshold during the season. I worked 21 games over the weekend and gave three technicals, one coach and two players. #1 was easy, had a jump ball and as the players are walking away B1 gives a forearm shiver to A1. #2 Coach was kneeling in front of her bench about three feet out on the court. After I almost tripped over her, I said to her (very nicely I might add) "coach, help me out, I need you to stay off the court". She stood up, turned to her bench and crowd and very audibly laughed out loud with her hands in the air. The next time down the court she was out on the court again, so I gave her a technical. As I was reporting, she was questioning what for, I just told her (nicely) "Coach, I asked you once and you laughed at me, then kept doing it" She just smiled and said "well, I thought it was funny". She came pretty close later in that game to getting another one, especially after Situation #1 above happened and I didn't count the layup her player made.
#3 I called a fould on B1 as A1 is driving for a layup. I blow the whistle, say "black 41, two shots", black 41 yells "Oh my god", I tooted again and gave her a T as I was walking towards the scoretable. Comments? Thanks.

[Brian Watson]

1) Sounds good. It was an admin error, kill it, and niether team is penalized.

2) If they make it, let it go. If they miss, and you think it rattled them, let shoot it again, and scold the table.

3) Big time mistake here, pretty clear in the case book that you stop the game, get them in the right direction and play on. If a basket is made, it still counts for that team since the officiials pointed them at the wrong basket.

4) I take much less than winter ball, but not being there I won't comment on your T. The coach one sounds maybe a little itchy with the trigger finger, but if you felt she was showing you up, then bang away, me I don't look forward when running back so I probably would have run her over. That would have been the best medicine.

As for the kids, I would have chucked mr. forearm shiver, and the other one sounds good.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by devdog69
Just want to run a few of these by all of you before I go diggin in the rule book. Fyi, if it matters, the level of ball was 11-12th grade girls.

1. A1 shoots and makes basket and is fouled. Some dummy administering free throw who has done 19 games already during the weekend tells the players "two shots ladies". A1 misses free throws and everyone just stands there, except A2 who rebounds and lays it in. I ruled no basket, went to the arrow and got the ball back into play quickly. Right or Wrong?

Basket counts for A2. B gets the ball for a throw-in along the end-line. See 2.10.1D

2. A1 shoots and is fouled by B2 (her fifth foul). Foul is reported and table fails to notify officials of B2's DQ. Just as A1 is releasing her first free throw the table buzzes the horn. What's the call here? Does it matter if she makes or misses the free throw? I wasn't in this game and luckily she made it so it wasn't an issue but it did bring up a discussion.

Not covered by rule. I'd tend to judge that it didn't affect the shot and not award a substitute.

3. I was watching this one too. Jump ball to start overtime, teams line up going the wrong direction. A1 taps to A2 who streaks for a layup, misses and one of the officials blow the whistle realizing they are going the wrong way and they rejump. It worked out fine because she had missed the layup but if it would have went in, I'm guessing it would have hit the fan. I know how I would have handled this but would like some of your thoughts.

Officials error. All play counts. Point the teams in the right direction and resume play. See 4.5.4.

THis is a pretty common mistake -- always check for the right direction on the jump ball to start OT.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by devdog69

4.

#2 Coach was kneeling in front of her bench about three feet out on the court. After I almost tripped over her, I said to her (very nicely I might add) "coach, help me out, I need you to stay off the court". She stood up, turned to her bench and crowd and very audibly laughed out loud with her hands in the air. The next time down the court she was out on the court again, so I gave her a technical. As I was reporting, she was questioning what for, I just told her (nicely) "Coach, I asked you once and you laughed at me, then kept doing it" She just smiled and said "well, I thought it was funny". She came pretty close later in that game to getting another one, especially after Situation #1 above happened and I didn't count the layup her player made.
#3 I called a fould on B1 as A1 is driving for a layup. I blow the whistle, say "black 41, two shots", black 41 yells "Oh my god", I tooted again and gave her a T as I was walking towards the scoretable. Comments? Thanks.

Looks like you handled #2 well, although I might have been
tempted to tell her she won't be laughing after I run her
@ss over next time. #3 was a good one too, IMO. Generally
I handle these summer tournament games tighter than I
would a regular season game.

[devdog69]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins
[B]

Originally posted by devdog69
Just want to run a few of these by all of you before I go diggin in the rule book. Fyi, if it matters, the level of ball was 11-12th grade girls.

1. A1 shoots and makes basket and is fouled. Some dummy administering free throw who has done 19 games already during the weekend tells the players "two shots ladies". A1 misses free throws and everyone just stands there, except A2 who rebounds and lays it in. I ruled no basket, went to the arrow and got the ball back into play quickly. Right or Wrong?

Basket counts for A2. B gets the ball for a throw-in along the end-line. See 2.10.1D

I have let this one stew on my mind for a week or so, and have sought out a few more opinions from camp clinicians over the past weekend. I don't think 2.10.1D applies because in that situation there was no disadvantage caused by the officials mistake, whereas in my original sitch there definitely was. There is nothing really to cover this exact situation, that I can find. The clinicians I asked all, of course, gave the answer that it should not ever happen. I agree, but in my defense my partner and I were on our 9th or 10th game of the day and our concentration was definitely off. Beyond that, they agreed that the only equitable thing to do was wipe the bucket and go to the arrow. I think that this is a case of invoking the rule about the referee ruling on any thing not covered in the book and using common sense to do the right thing. I know it's a very uncommon situation, and I hope it never happens to anyone, especially me, again. But if it does, I think I will use my common sense and handle it this way. Hey, Rut, I think we agree on this one, huh? Common sense coupled with a thorough knowledge of the rules is a common ground we should all strive for, imho.


[Edited by devdog69 on Jul 8th, 2002 at 10:46 AM]

[rpirtle]

You may not agree with Bob, but that is the correct way to administer your situation #1 above. The administrative error of indicating the wrong number of shots is not correctable. A2 gets a star for knowing the correct situation and should not be penalized for knowing the rules.

I think you must have caught the Camp Staff off guard and without their reference materials. But they gave you the wrong answer. The basket counts for Team A and Team B gets throw-in from the endline.

[Edited by rpirtle on Jul 8th, 2002 at 12:21 PM]