6 Men on the Floor

[cshs81]

I saw this in a high school game last night.

Ball was inbounded after a substitution. Offense dribbled to about halfcourt when the defensive coach mentioned to the officials that the offense had 6 players on the floor. No technical was called. Instead, the officials let the 6th player leave, started the play over and went on.

Was that the proper way to handle it or should a T have been called? If the official says "my mistake" does that negate the T? I thought it was odd.

[Jurassic Referee]

It's a team technical foul. No mercy. There is no rules justification to do what they did.

[grunewar]

While the refs should have counted players prior to inbounding the ball, I agree with....

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's a team technical foul. No mercy. There is no rules justification to do what they did.

I had my more favorite call Saturday.....coach calls sub off the bench and the 13 yr old just runs onto the court in the middle of the play. TWEET! T. Coach is flabbergasted......

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's a team technical foul. No mercy. There is no rules justification to do what they did.

I agree, but.. the refs should also have been slapped upside the head for failing to notice before hand.

[bob jenkins]

Should have been a T.

[ma_ref]

Shame on the officials twice:

- First for allowing the ball to be put in play with 6 people on the court
- Second for not calling the T

When I wave in subs, I always keep my hand raised (open palm) to let my partner know I'm not ready for a live ball yet. I take a quick count of the number of players, and when I have 10...5 from each team...not 6 and 4 , I lower my hand, and we're ready to continue play.

I had a similar situation a few years ago. It was during a kids rec league game, we had a T for a player not being listed in the official book. Turns out that the team had 11 players on the bench, but only 10 listed. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think it's safe to say that most people (again, not everyone), don't count the number of players for rec league ball. I always do for high school, but not youth league stuff. Anyway, I tell the coach we're going to have a T on his team for a player not listed. He says to me, "But aren't you supposed to verify the number of players prior to the start?" I told him "Yes coach I am...but as the head coach you're the one still ultimately responsible for getting all of your players listed in the book." Fortunately he agreed and left it at that. Shame on me for not counting the players, but we still ended up giving the T, as should have been done here with the 6 players on the court.

[Back In The Saddle]

I find that there is a much greater liklihood of having six players on the floor in youth rec league than in HS ball. Why would you not count players in rec ball? If nothing else it would maintain keep the habit of counting for when it's "important".

[ma_ref]

I should've been more specific...I always count the number players on the court during a game at any level I officiate. I was referring to counting the number of players on each team, prior to the start of the game, to verify that they match the number of players in the scorebook. Again, I always do this in high school, but rarely for rec ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I was referring to counting the number of players on each team, prior to the start of the game, to verify that they match the number of players in the scorebook. Again, I always do this in high school, but rarely for rec ball.

What if a player is a little late getting there? Or a player is in the dressing room having a dump? Does your plan go down the dumper then too?

Let the scorer do his job.

[Jurassic Referee]

=ma_ref
It was during a kids rec league game, we had a T for a player not being listed in the official book. Turns out that the team had 11 players on the bench, but only 10 listed. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think it's safe to say that most people (again, not everyone), don't count the number of players for rec league ball. I always do for high school, but not youth league stuff. Anyway, I tell the coach we're going to have a T on his team for a player not listed. He says to me, "But aren't you supposed to verify the number of players prior to the start?" I told him "Yes coach I am...but as the head coach you're the one still ultimately responsible for getting all of your players listed in the book." Fortunately he agreed and left it at that. Shame on me for not counting the players, but we still ended up giving the T, as should have been done here with the 6 players on the court.

You're supposed to verify the number of players on each team prior to the start?

I didn't know that. Where can I find that in the rules?

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're supposed to verify the number of players on each team prior to the start?

I didn't know that. Where can I find that in the rules?

Don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a rule, but doesn't everybody count the number of players prior to start and verify that the teams have at least that number of players in the book? I always assumed that was one of our pre-game responsibilities by rule. It helps to avoid, but doesn't totally prevent, the situation I got into where we had an administrative T for not having a player listed...

[loners4me]

I do? What am I missing here?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a rule, but doesn't everybody count the number of players prior to start and verify that the teams have at least that number of players in the book? I always assumed that was one of our pre-game responsibilities by rule. It helps to avoid, but doesn't totally prevent, the situation I got into where we had an administrative T for not having a player listed...

I never counted the players pre-game in my life. It's the team's job to supply a correct roster and starters. It's the scorer's job to enter the team rosters and starting lineups as given into the book. It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

If somebody screws up pre-game, it ain't the officials' fault. It's also nonsense imo to place any blame at all for a pre-game screw-up on the officials.

[TiManGR]

A number of years ago I was coaching my daughters middle school game. I sent my only sub to the table to report. Dead ball happens, other coach calls timeout. Of course, when the time out ends and the ball is put in play, I sit back down on the bench only to realize I am all alone, and I'm out of timeouts.

The girls were up and down the floor two times before I had one of my girls close enough to the bench to tell her to get off the floor and onto the bench.

As soon as she sat down, I caught the eye of one of the officials who just realized what had happened. She gave me a wink and told me I got away with one-she didn't actually see the 6 girls on the floor.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I told him "Yes coach I am...but as the head coach you're the one still ultimately responsible for getting all of your players listed in the book." Fortunately he agreed and left it at that. Shame on me for not counting the players, but we still ended up giving the T, as should have been done here with the 6 players on the court.

Originally Posted by ma_ref

"If he knows a kid is gonna be late, then it's the coach's repsonsibility to make sure that player is listed properly in the book prior to the start of the game,

I beleive that the coach is responsible for providing a correct roster prior to the 10 minute mark -- not for entering it into the book.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's the officials job to react if either the team or the scorer fails to do their jobs properly.

So, if the coach provides a complete and accurate roster, and the scorer enters it in the book INCORRECTLY, you are going to penalize that team for the scorer's mistake?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What if a player is a little late getting there? Or a player is in the dressing room having a dump? Does your plan go down the dumper then too?

Let the scorer do his job.

Having a dump? Or leaving a dump?