Volleyball video

[chapmaja]

Ok, video from a high school match in the area. Using NFHS rules.

The interesting portion is at about 47:30 through 55:00.

The announcers are pretty much clueless, but that's beside the point. How does do the officials handle this.

I know one of the officials on this match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk4qGKC9814

[Antonio.King]

I don't do much NFHS, but from what I remember:

Looks like the second referee acknowledges two separate substitution requests from the same team during the same dead ball. The first referee is correct in denying the second substitution request, despite the second referee acknowledging it.

Since the second referee whistled to acknowledge the second request, if I remember correctly, it should be an unnecessary delay, and a time out to the substituting team. If no time outs remain, then it's a point and service to the opponent.

I could be wrong in this. Though from what I remember, I think that's the procedure they should have followed.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Man you were right the announcers are incredibly clueless.Especially the play by play guy-know your volleyball man.

Now onto the officiating part of this:

*Good on the R1-he went thru his progressions correctly on the cards to the coach.Would any of you pass red and go straight to DQ for coach sitting on the floor when she is asked to sit down?

*Antonio-you're right on NFHS Unnecessary Delay.We're saying that the substitution request is denied because the R2 has given the game back to his partner correct?

*I'd like to know how the R2 communicated with the coach in the video Chapmaja- also some advice for communicating with coaches in this situation.

[john5396]

SC, it isn't that the R2 had given the court back to the R1. 10.2.3.c requires that a subsequent substitutes need to be ready to enter the sub zone. Since the R2 completed reporting the first sub to the table, it was too late to add a second substitute.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

john5396-so sub wasn't in the zone in time? OK that makes sense-the camera just bounces from the coach to R2 when the 2nd sub attempts to go in. When I am the R2 I always explain double substitution as the R2 during the captains meeting.I still would like to know people's thoughts about skipping red and jumping straight to DQ when she sits down on the floor after being told to sit.To me it could be construed as mocking an official's authority.

[john5396]

I wouldn't have any problem with a DQ when she sat down on the floor when told she had to stay seated.

[FMadera]

Wow. So much bad here.

The R2 could have handled a lot of this way better. There's no reason for the captain to have had to go back and forth if the R2 could have explained things better.

It looks like the R1 handled everything relatively appropriately. I would *not* have gone straight to DQ when she popped a squat on the floor, but I think the red would have come out sooner.

I also think the libero contrast on the team on the right is horrible, but that's another thread.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Wow. So much bad here.

The R2 could have handled a lot of this way better. There's no reason for the captain to have had to go back and forth if the R2 could have explained things better.

It looks like the R1 handled everything relatively appropriately. I would *not* have gone straight to DQ when she popped a squat on the floor, but I think the red would have come out sooner.

I also think the libero contrast on the team on the right is horrible, but that's another thread.

Now, with the comments said, here is what I know additionally about this situation, both from the R1 and from others who know the coach who was DQ'ed.

First, the R2 was a newer official who was working one of his first few Varsity matches. He learned a lot from this experience and will use it in the future.

Second, that is the last match coached by the coach. She was relieved of her duties immediately after the match.

Third, multiple reports say she went and hid under the bleachers after she was asked to leave.

Now, my opinion. I may have gone straight to the red and yellow cards following the sitting down on the floor antics. That was an obvious attempt to show up the officials in this situation. In my opinion the idea of sitting down on the court like that constitutes a major unsportsmanlike violation. The question is does 1 minor and 1 major equal a red and yellow or a red. The book says first minor is a yellow, first major is a red or second minor is a red. I think I would have been inclined to go with red and yellow.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Good on that AD-she won't be coaching again anytime soon after this.Felix-what is your thinking behind not going straight to DQ? To me she is showing up me and my partner and I'm going to put an end to it right here.

Chapmaja-do you know if game admin escorted her completely out of the building and then snuck back in?

are you waiting for game admin to escort her out and keep her out before resuming this match?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Felix-what is your thinking behind not going straight to DQ? To me she is showing up me and my partner and I'm going to put an end to it right there.

What the coach did, while juvenile and idiotic, was nowhere near as disrespectful as the antics she pulled to earn the yellow card. If those antics weren't worthy of skipping a sanction level, sitting on the floor wouldn't be either.

I am in no way saying that her actions were not worthy of a sanction. In fact, once she sat down like that, red would have been pulled instantly since she had already received yellow, but it was by no means severe or major enough to justify skipping a sanction level in my opinion.

Coaches try to show officials up far more often than you think, but that doesn't necessarily make it something automatically worthy of a disqualification.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Ok Felix I can definitely appreciate that position.Does having watched this video change the way you will do things next season for anyone?

[Antonio.King]

He didn't skip red, though. The sequence of events from the film I gathered were this:

First of all, the commentators are confusing the sanction scale off of what the first referee is actually doing, so when he's saying, "She's ejected", she wasn't. She was just given a red.

Yellow: yelling across the court
Red: Sitting on the floor AND remaining standing after being assessed the yellow.
DQ: Walking across the court to explain and show the rule.

That's what the video shows to me.

[kayla vb]

Originally Posted by Antonio.King

He didn't skip red, though. The sequence of events from the film I gathered were this:

First of all, the commentators are confusing the sanction scale off of what the first referee is actually doing, so when he's saying, "She's ejected", she wasn't. She was just given a red.

Yellow: yelling across the court
Red: Sitting on the floor AND remaining standing after being assessed the yellow.
DQ: Walking across the court to explain and show the rule.

That's what the video shows to me.

I don't think the DQ wasn't even for walking across the court (I actually think there may be NFHS allowances for this?), it was for leaving the rule book on the ref stand as she left.

I think tossing the coach when she sat on the court would've been a huge overreaction at that point. Yes, it was juvenile, but it should take way more than that to jump to a DQ in my opinion.

[pavbref]

Under NFHS rules, the coach is allowed to cross the floor and talk to the R1 for an explanation of the previous play in a time-out dead ball situation. The sanction of yellow card (warning and coach looses the right to stand while coaching her team) progressed to red with her obnoxious behavior (loss of point) and then to disqualification when she left the rulebook on the stand.

At this point, she should have been removed from the gym, and the the set point is awarded because of the DQ.

I believe that the R1 handled the situation correctly, but that we all can learn from watching how the R2's communication with the coach during the substitution procedure was inadequate. Properly communicating about what looks like a second attempt to substitute during the same dead ball should have indicated why the substitution was denied. This could have prevented the escalation of sanctions.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Antonio.King

He didn't skip red, though.

To clarify, I'm not saying he did. I was just saying that the first sanction was yellow, and that her antics to get the yellow card were way worse than anything else she did, so if that didn't warrant skipping a sanction level (which it didn't), then nothing else would have.

I was just saying that going from yellow to DQ (which did not happen) would have been a bad decision, IMO.