oob or ib ?

[Bart Tyson]

8th grade game, I am a basketball official so i don't know anything about the rules of volleyball. I did see several things the officical did, that i believe i would chalk up as lack of experience which i clearly understand. The following is a ruling she made, if correct, I think is a bad rule. Team A serving, they volley back and forth until the ball goes oob (?) on Team B side line. The ball was oob's but that is not my point. She also imediately signaled IB, but that is not my point either. After confering with the line judge( who didn't know if in or out), she rules she is not sure if it was in or out, so Team A gets a do-over serve. This I think is a bad rule. In basketball if the officials don't know then we go to a possession arrow. So, i think the volleyball rule should allow serve to go to the team that did not start the game with the serve. So, what do you think?

[devdog69]

They called a replay, which they often do in volleyball. Right or wrong, there is no possession arrow in vball.

[Homer]

Whatever.

The rules for volleyball differ quite obviously from the rules for basketball. And, the possession arrow is not applicable to volleyball at all.

"Do overs" are quite acceptable in volleyball under the appropriate circumstance. The rules of volleyball do not include any provisions such as you suggest. Nor, can I see any good reason why they should. If "in" or "out" cannot be definitively determined, a "do over" seems the fairest resolution for both teams.

[Bart Tyson]

Thank you for the info. I do disagree about the fairness part. I don't think it is fair to give the ball back to the team just because they had the serve. I think the rules in Volleyball need to be looked it and revised. At least in basketball, the rules committee is always open to make the game more fair. That is one of the reasons we have a possession arrow. There are new rules every year. Does volleyball have a rules committee, and do they ever make changes to rules?

[Andy]

Speaking as both a basketball and volleyball official, I can say that volleyball rules, at least in NFHS, are reviewed and changed periodically.

I don't know the origin or the rationale behind the replay rule, but for volleyball, it works. In HS volleyball, only the team serving can score points, so your point about fairness is thought provoking.

However, in just about every other rule set for VB (NCAA, USA, etc..) rally scoring is the norm and either team can score points on each serve. HS volleyball will probably follow suit soon. The replay rule in that case does not have as great an impact on the game.

From my experience in both sports, I beleive it is far more likely to use the alternating possesion in a basketball game than it is to use a replay in a volleyball match.

[Bart Tyson]

The 1st time i ever heard of rally scoring was just recently. My guess is this kind of scoring has been around for awhile. Anyway, thank you for the info.

[Brian Watson]

Bart, with your depth of hoops knowledge, I find it hard to see you slam another sports rules. A person that works only vollwyball would see what we do on the hardwood a little strange as well. In fact, there are a few rules of vball I would like to see cross over, and vise versa

The reason we have the replay, is for situations just like you describe. When there is an error by the crew, interference by someone not in the game, or a sleeping line judge.

When you are up on the stand, it is impossible to see if some balls were in or out. With experinece you can make an educated call, or even over-rule a clueless line judge, but it is fair to go to the replay when there is no other alternative.

Granted, some great rallys get wiped out due to it, but not very often. In hoops, if your partner blows an inadvertant whistle, it is easy to give the ball back out of bounds. In volleyball there is no equivilent, so you have to do the replay, it is the only fair thing to do. You cannot penalize a team with an alternating point or side out due to a reffing error. It would be like giving free throws because we had no idea who hit the ball OOB's.

Also know that the rules committee does make changes. A few years ago a joust was an called a replay. Nowthat was a stupid, unfair rule, and they did change it.

[DncnRef]

When an officials cannot determine if the ball landed in or out, then a replay is given. Basically a no-harm no-foul type play. Hopefully the linejudge can see the ball land but I have found that in the middle school games it is difficult to find good line judges. Adults should be used but the norm is to used two of the "kids" from the home school. Getting them to move to see around players is difficult at that age. Gennerally they don't know the game or they would be on the court playing. With just one official it is impossible to see thru the players and since we are located in one place with little freedom of movement, we have to rely on someone elses eyes to see those things that we can't. If they also can't see it then we just do it again...our "possession" arrow is always pointing to the team who served last. Maybe you should volunteer for lines next time! It's a very good seat, but there are some things that you can't see from there...

[SDUMP]

As a basketball and volleyball official, I personally don't see the difference in a replay in volleyball on a play that couldn't be seen clearly and a ball that goes out of bounds in basketball and the officials can't agree with which team touched it last. Volleyball - Replay. Basketball - Alternating Possession.
I think the big key is getting the call right. If you can't get the call right (in or out) then a replay needs to be called. The same goes for basketball. You have to put your ego in your back pocket, because at times there will be two players diving for a ball, both touching it so close to being at the same time - that you can't tell, where you are going to come up with a jump ball - AP arrow.
As far as changing a rule - in SD we are one of the states that have the experimental rally scoring. How could you justify giving the point to one team when you don't know if it is the right call.
The worst part is that this happened in a junior high game. I've seen it happen in a high school game, so it isn't just at the younger level.
You have to remember that the rules of the game (and our jobs as officials) are to have a "fair" playing field. How would it be fair for a team to lose a serve if the official couldn't tell if the ball was out-of-bounds?

[bwilldrd]

A replay makes sense due to the way VB is scored. Because (at least in junior high VB) you can only score when you have the serve, It would be unfair to award the ball to the receiving team, because a side-out, although it does not earn a point is just as good as a point since you need that to be able to score any future points.

In other levels of VB, Rally scoring has been adopted. In rally scoring, a point is scored every play regardless of who served. In that scenario, a possession arrow would not hurt, but I don't see how it would really help either.

[Bart Tyson]

Well, if all you volleyball officials believe the do over is the fairest way to handle this situation, then you have my blessings, not that you need my blessings, just a figure of speech. Again thanks.

[South Bay HHVBC]

I am a basketball official so i don't know anything about the rules of volleyball.

I suggest that you learn the rules and try to fully understand them before you come to a conclusion that a replay is considered an inadequate solution to a judgement call in the game of vb. Im not commin at you disrespectully. Im just saying if you are speaking from the point of view from someone that knows nothing about a sport, should not be condemming a rule/regulation that it may have.

Some vb games are fast paced and require all officials and linesmen to be on their game. Even if this is a fact, it is still difficult to be 100% accurate. Unlike basketball where theres an absolute result where the ball either goes in the basket or does not go in, the game of vball, balls that may be traveling in excess of 90 mph are sometimes diffiult to track and be called accurately if it is a borderline hit. I can tell you personally, comming from 15 years of coaching experience, a replay is not looked down upon in a legitimate game. If the refs or linesmen are obviously not doing their job, then thats a problem of a whole different sort.