Cards

[refnrev]

Some one put me out of my misery and explain it to me s--l--o--w--l--y. Since I have never given a card in 6 years of VB but plenty in 9 years of soccer I always get the VB procedure mixed up in my head. The only 2 cards I have ever seen given in VB were incorrect. First time the R2 held the card up over the player's head (as in soccer) without consulting R1. The second time R1 gave a coach a red for stomping her foot.... no words or dissent of the call... just a foot stomp while sitting on the bench. Help me.. my soccer instincts always take over in this and I have been too embarrased to ask until now. Thanks in advance.

[jkumpire]

1. In the message you gave,
A. R2 messed up with giving the card.
B. He should have privately showed the card to R1, then told him the player who earned it.
C. The mechanic according to FED is to show the card in front of his body to R1, then use fingers to tell the number.

Then R1 officially assess the card. R2 makes sure it is marked in the book, and the HC is notified.

2. R1 has the right to do what she did, she hit the HC with a card. Her judgment might be questioned, but she might have heard something else as well see the foot, or it was the final step in a process. I wouldn't have hit the HC, and neither would you in the case. She did.

The R2 has it put in the book, and gets to tell the HC she has the seat belt on.


Hope that helps!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

1. In the message you gave,
A. R2 messed up with giving the card.
B. He should have privately showed the card to R1, then told him the player who earned it.
C. The mechanic according to FED is to show the card in front of his body to R1, then use fingers to tell the number.

Then R1 officially assess the card. R2 makes sure it is marked in the book, and the HC is notified.

2. R1 has the right to do what she did, she hit the HC with a card. Her judgment might be questioned, but she might have heard something else as well see the foot, or it was the final step in a process. I wouldn't have hit the HC, and neither would you in the case. She did.

The R2 has it put in the book, and gets to tell the HC she has the seat belt on.


Hope that helps!

What do you mean when you use the word "privately"?

If, as R2, I have need to request a card, it will not be done secretly, discreetly, or any way other than calmly, openly, and with the same authority I would perform any other duty.

[jkumpire]

I agree with you,

However, that is the procedure according to the FED mechanics manual. I will quote you chapter and verse later!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I agree with you,

However, that is the procedure according to the FED mechanics manual. I will quote you chapter and verse later!

The Book of Referee, Chapter F, Verse Procedures 2 ...

"2. When the second referee sees or hears an action or response that necessitates a card, he/she shall move to the offending team’s side of the net and take a few steps onto the court towards the first referee. The second referee holds the card(s) in the middle of his/her chest and indicates verbally the number of the offending player(s) or coach. It is the responsibility of the first referee to immediately administer any card(s) requested by the second referee."

I supposed it depends on your definition of "privately", but nothing about that sounds discreet or secret. Sounds pretty front or center to me.

[refnrev]

No, you've misunderstood the question. In soccer in yellow-caution; 2 yellows- DQ; soft red - DQ; Red DQ. What is the progression and penalties for each. That's where it gets confused with soccer in my head even though I've read it several times. Brain freeze, I guess. Thanks. RR

[Back In The Saddle]

HS Volleyball --

Yellow card - issued for a first minor offense. It really serves as an official warning, as no other penalty is assessed. Unless it's on a coach or team member on the bench, in which case the head coach is seat belted. The card is recorded in the comments section of the score sheet.

Red card - issued for a second minor offense, or a first serious offense. Penalty is LOR/point. Card is recorded as above.

Yellow and red card displayed apart - for a third minor offense, for an offense following a red for a serious offense, or a single flagrant offense. Penalty is disqualification (or ejection, if an adult) of the offender and LOR/point. Card is recorded. An adult receiving a Y&R are to leave the premises. A child is never to leave without adult supervision.

Here's the verbiage from the book:

12-2 PENALTIES:
1. Unsporting conduct shall be penalized as follows:
a. Warning (yellow card) for first minor offenses;
b. Unsporting penalty (red card) for first serious offense or second
minor offense and loss of rally/point awarded to opponent;
c. Disqualification (yellow and red card) for first flagrant offense, second
serious offense; or third minor offense and loss of rally/point
awarded to opponent. Offender is disqualified from further participation
in match and may be removed from the vicinity of the team
bench.
d. Forfeit results when:
1. Disqualified individual violates conduct rules following disqualification;
2. Coach is disqualified and removed from premises and no other authorized school personnel is available to take the bench;
3. Team refuses to play when directed to do so by the first referee.
NOTE: The first referee shall follow the procedures for unsporting conduct violations when issuing cards.

PROCEDURE FOR UNSPORTING CONDUCT VIOLATIONS:
1. The first referee, as the head official, sets the tone for the match and shall be responsible for controlling the unsporting conduct of coaches, players and/or other team personnel. Therefore, only the first referee shall administer
the cards as follows:
a. Hold the card(s) in the hand(s) on the offending team’s side of the Page 47 2008-09 NFHS Volleyball Rules Rule 12-2 court with the arm outstretched, elbow bent 90 degrees and hand(s) held head-high;
b. Verbalize to the second referee the number of the player(s) or which coach is receiving the card. The first referee should be sure that the second referee also has identified the offender(s) and verified that the scorer has recorded the information on the scoresheet. Under no circumstances shall the referees permit unsporting conduct to occur without a penalty. If there are multiple offenses, each offender shall be penalized.
2. When the second referee sees or hears an action or response that necessitates a card, he/she shall move to the offending team’s side of the net and take a few steps onto the court toward the first referee. The second referee holds the card(s) in the middle of his/her chest and indicates verbally the number of the offending player(s) or coach. It is the responsibility of the first referee to immediately administer any card(s) requested by the second referee.
3. Warning: A yellow card is administered by the first referee at the first dead ball. The warning shall be recorded in the Comments section on the scoresheet.
No penalty is assessed.
4. Penalty: A red card is administered at the first dead ball. The penalty is recorded in the Comments section on the scoresheet.
5. Disqualification: The yellow and red cards are displayed apart (usually at the first dead ball). The offender may be removed from the vicinity of the team bench provided there is authorized school personnel available to supervise. (When the offender is a coach or other adult team personnel, the offender shall be removed from the premises.) The referee shall notify the appropriate coach of the reason for the disqualification. The disqualification is recorded in the Comments section of the scoresheet.
6. Forfeit, if awarded to opponent, shall be recorded on the scoresheet.
7. If the situation warrants, the referees may issue a red card or a yellow and red card on a first unsporting conduct violation.
8. The second referee shall direct the scorer to record the proper notations and verify that the scorer has recorded them.
9. All cards carry over from game to game throughout the match. The second referee may keep notations on the lineup card. The scorer shall notify the second referee of any previous violations by the same individual.
10. When unsporting conduct occurs from the bench or court and the referees cannot determine the specific offender(s), the warning or penalty is issued to the coach.
11. Any cards issued for unsporting conduct prior to the first game or between games shall be administered at the beginning of the game immediately following the violation. After lineups are recorded, the card(s) is recorded in Rule 12-3 2008-09 NFHS Volleyball Rules Page 48 the Comments section on the scoresheet for the game in which it is administered.
12. Requests such as time-out, serving order check, substitution, etc. shall not be recognized until after the card(s) is administered.
13. If the team captain asks in a proper manner, the first referee shall give the reason for the penalty, but shall not permit further discussion of the penalty

[refnrev]

Thanks BITS. What I have a little trouble keeping straight in my head is what constitutes what. In soccer the violations are so ingrained in me that they are second nature. But in VB I have trouble not blurring the lines between unsporting, serious, and flagrant .... As mentioned earlier, I once saw a coach given a red for stomping her foot.... that really is all she did... and I thought red was too harsh. I also need to memorize the succession of yellow, red, dq, forfieture, etc. Thanks again. RR

[jkumpire]

I have learned:

1. Never respond to such a specific topic w/o rule book in hand
2. After drinking enough caffinated beverages to make sure I am awake.

Thanks for picking up the drop I had.

[Back In The Saddle]

I've got your back, partner

[MCBear]

rev, see if this helps to simplify things:

**Yellow - warning for behavior that you believe is minor in nature but could get worse - this is EASY to do and doesn't cost a team anything unless it is on a bench player/personnel.
**Red - penalty - a bit beyond what you would consider giving a warning or a second offense by the same player/coach that you had already given a YC.
** Red and Yellow displayed apart - DQ - the individual packs up and leaves the vicinity of the team bench. In NFHS, if it is a player, they MUST go a a supervised area for the remainder of the match. If it is a coach, they must leave the gym.
** Forfeit - as listed previously (this one does not happen all that often, Thank God!).

Always follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid!!!! or if you are totally confused it means "Keep It Stupid, Simple!!!!)

Follow your instincts. If you need to talk to them, it probably is a yellow card offense. If you feel your blood pressure rising because someone is yelling about a call or they are getting too rambunctious - red card. You will know when you have to DQ - usually someone has dropped the "f" bomb and you heard it loud and clear because it was directed at you.

[refnrev]

Yep. That's what I've been looking for. Thanks!

[refnrev]

Finally got this card thing memorized after highlighting it in the rules book and drilling it into my head.