Camp question

[Scrapper1]

So I just got home from my second volleyball officiating camp ever. This was a PAVO camp with great observers. It's really just a 24 hour camp with a classroom session on Friday night and then two observation sessions on Saturday (each session includes one observer watching you work R1 and then R2).

I would've enjoyed a second classroom session, but even without it, it was a very good experience.

Here is a situation that actually happened to me and the clinicians were divided on how it could be handled. I'm R2 in this play.

A1 attacks the ball and B1 shanks the first team contact so that the ball contacts the curtain/divider that separates two courts. The first referee does not sound the whistle and allows play to continue. Can the second referee blow the whistle to end the rally?

R2 is allowed to blow the whistle when the ball is down, in or out, right? But does that also apply to a touched ball? If not, is the curtain considered to be a wall (which would mean the ball would be a touched ball hitting out of bounds); or is it a non-playing area (which would be "out" when the player plays it, which the R2 can whistle)?

OR. . . is it not actually covered by rule at all? Is this simply an officials' procedure? In which case, the situation would not be protestable, regardless of the R2's decision.

What can/should the R2 do here?

(In my actual situation, I didn't blow the whistle and the observer was directly behind the R1, saying "Blow the whistle! Blow the whistle!", which she did. Please don't bash the R1 -- she is a first year official and just froze.)

[bob jenkins]

The curtain issue needs to be decided during re-game. The closer it goes down to the ground, the more likely it is to be a "wall". The higher it stays, the more likely it is to be "ceiling."

I think the call only belongs to R1 -- but, especially if it's away from R1 and R1 might not have a good view of whether the ball actually hit the curtain or whether B1 played the ball before it hit the curtain, R2 can provide help.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think the call only belongs to R1 -- but, especially if it's away from R1 and R1 might not have a good view of whether the ball actually hit the curtain or whether B1 played the ball before it hit the curtain, R2 can provide help.

This is my thought, too. But some of the observers felt that the R2 could -- by rule -- blow it dead.

[FMadera]

A couple of things:

1. This should definitely be prematched.
2. The R2 has the right to whistle a non-judgment fault that he is certain the R1 missed (stay away from ball handling on this one), such as illegal attack/block, ball down, etc. If the R2 has given R1 first shot on this and is 100% certain it contacted that divider, I think a whistle is appropriate (headsets would help here).
3. If the R1 has a question about the whistle and discusses with the R2, and insists the ball didn't contact the divider, a replay may be appropriate. The final decision rests with the R1.

Just my thoughts.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by FMadera

3. If the R1 has a question about the whistle and discusses with the R2, and insists the ball didn't contact the divider, a replay may be appropriate. The final decision rests with the R1.

Just my thoughts.

As a general rule, should the R2 whistle it, and risk a replay, or signal it, wait until the play is over and then discuss with R1. We can go back and get the fault, or decide it wasn't a fault and the play stands -- but there's no replay.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

As a general rule, should the R2 whistle it, and risk a replay, or signal it, wait until the play is over and then discuss with R1. We can go back and get the fault, or decide it wasn't a fault and the play stands -- but there's no replay.

I think as a general rule, that's definitely something to include in your prematch. If you wait, there's far less likelihood of a replay (virtually none, if done correctly), but you'll get lots of crap for waiting so long after the fact to decide on a fault. If the R2 whistles incorrectly, there's greater chance of the R1 issuing a replay, or other ill will caused by the indecision.

Another great reason for headsets!

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by FMadera

I think as a general rule, that's definitely something to include in your prematch. If you wait, there's far less likelihood of a replay (virtually none, if done correctly), but you'll get lots of crap for waiting so long after the fact to decide on a fault. If the R2 whistles incorrectly, there's greater chance of the R1 issuing a replay, or other ill will caused by the indecision.

Another great reason for headsets!

Does volleyball have a signal for stopping play without issuing a decision? In basketball, the open-hand stop clock signal stops play, but does not commit an official to any particular decision.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Does volleyball have a signal for stopping play without issuing a decision? In basketball, the open-hand stop clock signal stops play, but does not commit an official to any particular decision.

That's not true in basketball.

[ilyazhito]

The open hand signal is.used for a timeout, violation, or held ball. All it means, by itself, is that play is stopped. In NFHS and NCAA men's mechanics, a stop-clock signal, with the open hand, is required before.calling a held ball, any violation, or a timeout, whether charged or officials'. Thus, the open hand is the generic stop signal for the game clock. In NCAA women's mechanics, the stop clock signal is not used for an out-of-bounds violation, 5-second violation, 10-second violation, or a held ball.
In an NFHS (or NCAAM) game, an official can blow a whistle, raise an open.hand, and look to a partner.for help.if unsure.on an out-of-bounds play (or.use.the time granted by him stopping the clock to decide himself).

Does volleyball have a similar signal to communicate that play is stopped, but that a point is not awarded (yet)?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Does volleyball have a similar signal to communicate that play is stopped, but that a point is not awarded (yet)?

Yes. Replay.

[Lcubed48]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Another great reason for headsets!

But!

I used headsets last season for the first time. They help out in all different scenarios. I like'em.

My thoughts on the play in question is that's why we get paid the big bucks to make the call.