Unplayable area

[Zoochy]

Is an R2 allowed to whistle a ball dead when the ball IS NOT being played and it has passed into the zone of 'Unplayable area' on the R2's side"
Or is that only a R1's whistle?

[Tony.oe4]

By rule, R1 makes that call unless that is something the officials' discussed in pre-match. In NFHS, the R2 responsibility is center line and net fault. If R2 is watching the ball go over non-playable area on R2 side and R1 is watching ball handling, who is watching the net?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Tony.oe4

By rule, R1 makes that call unless that is something the officials' discussed in pre-match. In NFHS, the R2 responsibility is center line and net fault. If R2 is watching the ball go over non-playable area on R2 side and R1 is watching ball handling, who is watching the net?

In the real world, the net is almost never an issue in this situation once the blockers have completed the act of playing the ball (USAV/NCAA), and in NFHS, the likelihood of a net fault being committed by the blocking team before the attacking team plays that ball, while not nil, is pretty close to it.

[Zoochy]

But you do agree with Tony.oe4. R2 should leave the whistle to the R1 on the play

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

But you do agree with Tony.oe4. R2 should leave the whistle to the R1 on the play

Yes, unless otherwise discussed and agreed upon prematch.

[chapmaja]

So what about this situation. Ball is shanked to a player who is attempting to play the ball as it passes between the bench and the scorers table. There is no physical line on the floor designating the dividing line between those two locations for the R1, who at best is about 40 feet away to see. The R2 is 10 feet away and has a much better ability to not only see, but determine of the player plays the ball legally or not.

The reason I ask is I did have this issue come up a couple weeks ago at an all day tourney. The R2 never made a call and then had to spend a couple minutes discussing the situation with the complaining coach, then me as the R1, then the other coach, then me again, then the complaining coach, then me. In the end we ruled it a replay which I know really isn't supported by rule, but at that point it was about the only way to 1) get the match going again and 2) get the R2 away from the complaining coaches. Plus the coaches actually suggested the replay.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

So what about this situation. Ball is shanked to a player who is attempting to play the ball as it passes between the bench and the scorers table. There is no physical line on the floor designating the dividing line between those two locations for the R1, who at best is about 40 feet away to see. The R2 is 10 feet away and has a much better ability to not only see, but determine of the player plays the ball legally or not.

The reason I ask is I did have this issue come up a couple weeks ago at an all day tourney. The R2 never made a call and then had to spend a couple minutes discussing the situation with the complaining coach, then me as the R1, then the other coach, then me again, then the complaining coach, then me. In the end we ruled it a replay which I know really isn't supported by rule, but at that point it was about the only way to 1) get the match going again and 2) get the R2 away from the complaining coaches. Plus the coaches actually suggested the replay.

In my inexperienced opinion, R2 should just give you the information to let you make the call -- e.g., a sort-of-subtle "out" signal, or a head nod to let you know it was legal.

Much like when R2 sees a touch -- give that signal, but don't make the call.

[Tony.oe4]

As stated earlier, this is still the R1's call unless it is something the officials pre-matched about. A discreet signal by the R2 can help but again, something that should be discussing in pre-match so the R1 knows what the R2's discreet signal will be for this situation.

[Middleman]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

So what about this situation. Ball is shanked to a player who is attempting to play the ball as it passes between the bench and the scorers table. There is no physical line on the floor designating the dividing line between those two locations for the R1, who at best is about 40 feet away to see. The R2 is 10 feet away and has a much better ability to not only see, but determine of the player plays the ball legally or not.

The reason I ask is I did have this issue come up a couple weeks ago at an all day tourney. The R2 never made a call and then had to spend a couple minutes discussing the situation with the complaining coach, then me as the R1, then the other coach, then me again, then the complaining coach, then me. In the end we ruled it a replay which I know really isn't supported by rule, but at that point it was about the only way to 1) get the match going again and 2) get the R2 away from the complaining coaches. Plus the coaches actually suggested the replay.

I don't get it. What happened to the ball?

R2 never made a call that he wasn't supposed to make. Either the player kept the ball in play, or not. What did you do, as R1? How did this cause an extended "discussion" with a "complaining coach?" What could his complaint have been?

Just curious, looking for a clarification.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Middleman

I don't get it. What happened to the ball?

R2 never made a call that he wasn't supposed to make. Either the player kept the ball in play, or not. What did you do, as R1? How did this cause an extended "discussion" with a "complaining coach?" What could his complaint have been?

Just curious, looking for a clarification.

The question was if the player had gone into an unplayable area to play the ball. Was she in the area between the bench and scorers table when she played the ball or not. If she was, then the ball should have been blown dead. If she wasn't, then it was still a live ball and play continued. As the R1 I let play continue as I did not have a great view of where exactly she was to say she was or was not in an unplayable area.

It is my opinion, that if I am not 100% of a call, I am going to let play continue and then if we need to address a situation after, then we address it after the point. This usually applies to entering an unplayable area of an antenna fault issue with a line judge who isn't signally clearly. (and occasionally a back row attack if I have lost track of the setter).

This is similar to officials letting a potential fumble play continue in football then making a decision at the end of the play (like the Lions - KC game where the officials didn't have a clue, but had gotten burned earlier in the season on a similar play).