The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Volleyball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:27pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMadera View Post
Perhaps the best takeaway here is include that in your prematch discussion, how to convey information in an unorthodox situation.
Great point, Felix. I've been LJ where I've had a really good pre-game, and when I've had a not-so-good pre-game. Adding "unorthodox situations" to the pre-game as an R1 is really good advice.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2019, 12:30pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaREF View Post
I don't disagree with the idea of 'fine-tuning'. But just like everything else, the devil is in the details. Speaking specifically NFHS and NCAA, the R1 and R2 are assumed to be trained and paid officials. Line judges may or may not be trained and/or paid, so the level of expertise can vary widely and they are not held to the same standard as R1 and R2.
Another excellent point. Earlier in the thread, I said something like "you've got four very good officials out there. . ." and even at the time I typed it, I knew that was not always the case. (Is it always true in college matches? Probably not, I guess.) It happened to be true in the play that was originally talking about, but is an over-generalization for most of the time.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 17, 2019, 09:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Tonight, I was LJ1 and saw a play that I have honestly never seen before at any level. The ball is being played on my side of the court. The ball is passed to the setter, the ball is set to a back-row hitter who is just behind the 3 meter line, more or less right in front of me. The hitter attacks the ball.

So far, nothing unusual.

However, as the back-row player is attacking the ball, the front-row player in front of him is jumping to FAKE the attack. When the back-row player contacts the ball, the ball then glances off the forearm of the faking front-row player.

There is no whistle from the R1 and no signal from the R2. The R1 is a great official. To make matters worse, it was match point. (It was 25-10, so it didn't affect the game, but still.) We talked about it after the match. R1 had moved his eyes to the other side of the net, and the R2 was focused on the blocking action at the net. I only saw it because both players were in my direct line of sight for the whole play.

Is there ANY way that I can or should indicate this fault to one of the referees? I'm 99% sure that the answer is no, but I feel like this is important enough to warrant as much as input as the referees can get.
No, even though you know the call is missed there is nothing that can be done to receive your input on this call unless you are asked for the input. Now, if the team that lost the point questions the call and the R1 asks you to provide input as to what you witnessed, then you can provide the input. Even then I think providing that input opens a huge can of worms though for both the R1 and the LJ. It is obviously admitting a missed call by the R1, which could lead to requests to review basic calls in the future by the same teams. Additionally, even though you were absolutely correct in your watching the contact, you could be accused of officiating beyond your duties as a LJ.

On this the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless asked and understand that missed calls happen.


This does remind me of a situation I had years ago. Varsity tourney on the final weekend before the state playoffs. Its the silver bracket semi-final and there is an obvious missed 4 hits call. (By obvious I mean 3 clear hits before the ball was close to the net and the 4th sending it over. I'm the R2 and immediately put 4 fingers across my chest. Nothing happens. Play continues and the offended team coach is offended and is screaming from the bench. Finally their team loses the point and coach is ballastic on the bench. Our association makes it clear the R2 never crosses to talk to the R1 unless the R1 beacons the R2 across. Screw that, I'm going across to let the R1 know that was a clear 4 hits. (This somewhat calms the coach down). I tell him we had a clear four hits and am able to tell him exactly what part of the court they were on. (Pass backward, pass to the 10 foot, pass to the setter at the 10 foot, and a hit from the 10 foot over the net). His response was that we only had three hits. After wiping the look of shock off my face I turn around trying to figure out how I will sell the call to the now more irate coach. As I am walking back I see all three players working the scorers table, plus both lines judges holding up four fingers. I end up having to yellow card the coach.

Move on to the next set and there is a ball that hits about a foot in front of the yellow carded coaches player and she hits it after the bounce. I, as well as both line judges, are signally in. Play continues. Yellow carded coaches team ends up winning the point. As I am doing a sub for the other team yellow carded coach asks to talk to me. "I want you to give the point to the other team, that ball was clearly down." I then had to go explain to the R1 why this call was being over ruled.

After the match I immediately walk away to not lose my cool with this guy on the court. He walks into the officials room and says something about how rough a match that was. It took every ounce of power in me not to start ripping into the incompetent fool. I think I still have a hole in my tongue from biting it so hard. I spent an hour writing and email to my assigner about that match. Worst match I've ever had to deal with from a partner perspective.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 18, 2019, 08:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 594
Send a message via ICQ to FMadera Send a message via AIM to FMadera Send a message via Yahoo to FMadera
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Great point, Felix. I've been LJ where I've had a really good pre-game, and when I've had a not-so-good pre-game. Adding "unorthodox situations" to the pre-game as an R1 is really good advice.
I guess we can make another thread about this if we wanted, but it's always good to know the importance of a good prematch.

If, as R1, your prematch with your R2 consists of "watch the net, watch the center line...," you could not have just had a worse prematch. Assume your professional partner knows the bare minimum about their job.

Your prematch should cover as many of the things that could get you in trouble as is reasonable to cover, and how to handle those things. As R2, ask questions your R2 didn't cover, talk about how you communicate certain things, go over, "If I do this, it means this, you should probably do this."

With your line judges, talk about how you want things communicated from them, how you will communicate with them, etc.

R2, talk to your scorers. They don't know what you want/need if you don't tell them, and you had better make sure you know what THEY need as well. Your job is to give them the info the way they need it, not for them to take it how you give it.

Et cetera.
__________________
Felix A. Madera
USAV Indoor National / Beach Zonal Referee
FIVB Qualified International Scorer
PAVO National Referee / Certified Line Judge/Scorer
WIAA/IHSA Volleyball Referee
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1