Interference/Obstruction

[sp279]

Hi all,
First Q&A for 2015!

USSSA 16U-
R on second. Ball is hit about 5 feet directly behind 2nd base. No fielder really has a play on it, except maybe the center fielder who is charging in. Ball drops about a foot or so to the ground on the grass. I am in the C position. R at second realizes the ball won't be caught (it was a arcing trajectory) so she heads to Third. In the meantime, the shortstop starts heading towards where the ball is going to land but in my opinion would never had made the play (to catch it or even field it when it landed). While doing so the R, who tried to avoid contact runs into the shortstop, knocking the shortstop down; but also the contact impedes her running progress to where the center fielder after picking up the ball could have made a play at third on the runner. I was right there and called OBSTRUCTION on the shortstop. There was a runner being forced from first to second by the hit as well. By the time the Center fielder picked up the ball the runner was just about at second and she couldn't make a play on her; but because the R on second was slowed by the contact she could have made a play by throwing to third, but for whatever reason elected not to.

The head coach charged on the field demanding that the R going to third should be called OUT for INTERFERENCE on his shortstop (who again in my opinion did not have a chance to either catch or field the ball even without the contact). The play ended with the R safely getting to third, thereby cancelling the OBSTRUCTION sign.
I would like to have some opinion in what you would have called. My interpretation is to call an INTERFERENCE on the R the shortstop would have had to of had a legitimate chance at making a play. In this case, the contact actually could have caused the R to be thrown out at third. So was OBSTRUCTION the right call?
Thank you!

[youngump]

Originally Posted by sp279

Hi all,
First Q&A for 2015!

USSSA 16U-
R on second. Ball is hit about 5 feet directly behind 2nd base. No fielder really has a play on it, except maybe the center fielder who is charging in. Ball drops about a foot or so to the ground on the grass. I am in the C position. R at second realizes the ball won't be caught (it was a arcing trajectory) so she heads to Third. In the meantime, the shortstop starts heading towards where the ball is going to land but in my opinion would never had made the play (to catch it or even field it when it landed). While doing so the R, who tried to avoid contact runs into the shortstop, knocking the shortstop down; but also the contact impedes her running progress to where the center fielder after picking up the ball could have made a play at third on the runner. I was right there and called OBSTRUCTION on the shortstop. There was a runner being forced from first to second by the hit as well. By the time the Center fielder picked up the ball the runner was just about at second and she couldn't make a play on her; but because the R on second was slowed by the contact she could have made a play by throwing to third, but for whatever reason elected not to.

The head coach charged on the field demanding that the R going to third should be called OUT for INTERFERENCE on his shortstop (who again in my opinion did not have a chance to either catch or field the ball even without the contact). The play ended with the R safely getting to third, thereby cancelling the OBSTRUCTION sign.
I would like to have some opinion in what you would have called. My interpretation is to call an INTERFERENCE on the R the shortstop would have had to of had a legitimate chance at making a play. In this case, the contact actually could have caused the R to be thrown out at third. So was OBSTRUCTION the right call?
Thank you!

Assuming USSSA isn't different from most softball, this sounds like you got the call right. But you've got some stuff in here that doesn't matter. One player is fielding the ball. Whoever has the best chance to get to it, protect that player. In your case it seems you had the center fielder as that player so no other player is entitled to obstruct a runner. You therefore have obstruction on the shortstop. It does not matter if the obstruction made a play possible or not. Since the runner was impeded, you have obstruction.

As a pedantic point, the runner getting to third did not cancel the obstruction. It simply made it so the award was of the base she had already obtained so there was no need to make an award. But if for some reason she had decided to retreat to second before a play was made on another runner, she still would have been protected. Again, this assumes USSSA are like NFHS and ASA. If they aren't, I have nothing to offer you.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by sp279

Hi all,
First Q&A for 2015!

USSSA 16U-
R on second. Ball is hit about 5 feet directly behind 2nd base. No fielder really has a play on it, except maybe the center fielder who is charging in. Ball drops about a foot or so to the ground on the grass. I am in the C position. R at second realizes the ball won't be caught (it was a arcing trajectory) so she heads to Third. In the meantime, the shortstop starts heading towards where the ball is going to land but in my opinion would never had made the play (to catch it or even field it when it landed). While doing so the R, who tried to avoid contact runs into the shortstop, knocking the shortstop down; but also the contact impedes her running progress to where the center fielder after picking up the ball could have made a play at third on the runner. I was right there and called OBSTRUCTION on the shortstop. There was a runner being forced from first to second by the hit as well. By the time the Center fielder picked up the ball the runner was just about at second and she couldn't make a play on her; but because the R on second was slowed by the contact she could have made a play by throwing to third, but for whatever reason elected not to.

The head coach charged on the field demanding that the R going to third should be called OUT for INTERFERENCE on his shortstop (who again in my opinion did not have a chance to either catch or field the ball even without the contact). The play ended with the R safely getting to third, thereby cancelling the OBSTRUCTION sign.
I would like to have some opinion in what you would have called. My interpretation is to call an INTERFERENCE on the R the shortstop would have had to of had a legitimate chance at making a play. In this case, the contact actually could have caused the R to be thrown out at third. So was OBSTRUCTION the right call?
Thank you!

You made the right call. But, I have to ask. Did you eject the HC that charged onto the field?

MTD, Sr.

[prab]

Originally Posted by youngump

As a pedantic point, .........

I give full marks to youngump for being able to work the word "pedantic" into a conversation about interference v obstruction!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by sp279

Hi all,
First Q&A for 2015!

USSSA 16U-
R on second. Ball is hit about 5 feet directly behind 2nd base. No fielder really has a play on it, except maybe the center fielder who is charging in. Ball drops about a foot or so to the ground on the grass. I am in the C position. R at second realizes the ball won't be caught (it was a arcing trajectory) so she heads to Third. In the meantime, the shortstop starts heading towards where the ball is going to land but in my opinion would never had made the play (to catch it or even field it when it landed). While doing so the R, who tried to avoid contact runs into the shortstop, knocking the shortstop down; but also the contact impedes her running progress to where the center fielder after picking up the ball could have made a play at third on the runner. I was right there and called OBSTRUCTION on the shortstop. There was a runner being forced from first to second by the hit as well. By the time the Center fielder picked up the ball the runner was just about at second and she couldn't make a play on her; but because the R on second was slowed by the contact she could have made a play by throwing to third, but for whatever reason elected not to.

The head coach charged on the field demanding that the R going to third should be called OUT for INTERFERENCE on his shortstop (who again in my opinion did not have a chance to either catch or field the ball even without the contact). The play ended with the R safely getting to third, thereby cancelling the OBSTRUCTION sign.
I would like to have some opinion in what you would have called. My interpretation is to call an INTERFERENCE on the R the shortstop would have had to of had a legitimate chance at making a play. In this case, the contact actually could have caused the R to be thrown out at third. So was OBSTRUCTION the right call?
Thank you!

Looks like a good call (see bold above), and USSSA is like the others.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by sp279

Hi all,
First Q&A for 2015!

USSSA 16U-
R on second. Ball is hit about 5 feet directly behind 2nd base. No fielder really has a play on it, except maybe the center fielder who is charging in. Ball drops about a foot or so to the ground on the grass. I am in the C position. R at second realizes the ball won't be caught (it was a arcing trajectory) so she heads to Third. In the meantime, the shortstop starts heading towards where the ball is going to land but in my opinion would never had made the play (to catch it or even field it when it landed). While doing so the R, who tried to avoid contact runs into the shortstop, knocking the shortstop down; but also the contact impedes her running progress to where the center fielder after picking up the ball could have made a play at third on the runner. I was right there and called OBSTRUCTION on the shortstop. There was a runner being forced from first to second by the hit as well. By the time the Center fielder picked up the ball the runner was just about at second and she couldn't make a play on her; but because the R on second was slowed by the contact she could have made a play by throwing to third, but for whatever reason elected not to.

The head coach charged on the field demanding that the R going to third should be called OUT for INTERFERENCE on his shortstop (who again in my opinion did not have a chance to either catch or field the ball even without the contact). The play ended with the R safely getting to third, thereby cancelling the OBSTRUCTION sign.
I would like to have some opinion in what you would have called. My interpretation is to call an INTERFERENCE on the R the shortstop would have had to of had a legitimate chance at making a play. In this case, the contact actually could have caused the R to be thrown out at third. So was OBSTRUCTION the right call?
Thank you!

Correct call as described, but as noted above, it really doesn't matter whether F6 had a chance to catch or field the ball if you had determined that F8 had the best chance. You can only protect one fielder, not every fielder that has a chance.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Just one thing to add.

As an umpire, it is always better to state "in my judgment" rather than "in my opinion". You used that phrase twice in your OP, which suggests to me that this is the phrase you use as your standard.

Get used to using rulebook terminology, even when talking among other umpires, and it will then be natural to use it with coaches. Say circle, not mound, pitching plate, not rubber, catcher's obstruction, not interference, illegal pitch, not balk, and judgment, not opinion.

If you told that coach your opinion, he has every right and reason to attempt to make you change it, with every argument he can think to use. Once it is your judgment, he can only choose to disagree.

Finally, I have been told the USSSA rules most closely resemble NFHS. I refer you to rule 8-8-3, Runner is NOT OUT when .... "more than one fielder attempts to field a batted ball, and the runner comes into contact with the one who, in the judgment of the umpire, could not have made an out."

The ASA equivalent is 8.8-C. NCAA 12.11.11. The only difference is NCAA ends with "play", not "out".

[CecilOne]

ITUJ is one of my favorites.

USSSA rule is not as specific, but:

When a runner is obstructed while advancing or returning to a base, by a
fielder who neither has the ball nor is attempting an initial play on a batted ball,it shall be a delayed dead-ball.

EFFECT: If the obstructed runner is put out prior to reaching the base that
would have been reached had there not been obstruction, a dead ball is
declared and the Umpire shall award the obstructed runner, and each other
runner affected by the obstruction, the bases they would have reached, in the Umpire’s judgment, had there been no obstruction.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Here is the more specific USSSA rule, found on line; Rule 8, Sec 18, H, NOTE 4.

"If two fielders try to field a batted ball and the runner contacts one or both, the Umpire shall decide which one is entitled to field the ball and that fielder only is entitled to protection."

[sp279]

Thank you'all...

Regarding the Obstruction cancellation, I should have worded that differently...she did reach the base she was going to but you are right, she could have tried to go back to second in reality...

As far as my using "in my opinion, judgment, etc." while I used that here to clarify for you'all more of what I was thinking; I actually don't use that verbiage in tongue. My discussions with coaches for the last 20 years are generally very short, pleasant and sweet. In this case, like most I told the coach "There was no interference, she had no play on the ball. However, I did call obstruction on your player coach! Please now leave the field or be ejected. Thank you." He left.

As far as throwing coaches out immediately after charging onto the field; I take it on a case by case basis. Sometimes coaches walk or jog out looking like they are going to kill you but they ask politely then for an explanation. Some walk out looking like they are going to offer flowers and tear into you. That Dog don't Hunt; 2 seconds and out.

[MD Longhorn]

Smh...

[jwwashburn]

sp279,

From what I read, you got the call right. Why did you think you might not have been correct? Did you look it up in the book after the game?

If I use the adjective "Charge", that coach will be getting ejected.

USSSA

RULE 11. SPORTSMANSHIP
Sec 2. A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

-P. Charge an Umpire.


PENALTY L-T: If it is the FIRST OFFENSE and is judged to be of a minor
nature, an offending player may be warned or an offending coach may be
restricted to the bench. If not minor or a subsequent offense, the Umpire shall
eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in the game
being forfeited. Any coach restricted to the bench shall be ejected for further
misconduct. A coach may leave the bench/dugout to attend to a player who
becomes ill or injured.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

sp279,

From what I read, you got the call right. Why did you think you might not have been correct? Did you look it up in the book after the game?

If I use the adjective "Charge", that coach will be getting ejected.

USSSA

RULE 11. SPORTSMANSHIP
Sec 2. A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

-P. Charge an Umpire.


PENALTY L-T: If it is the FIRST OFFENSE and is judged to be of a minor
nature, an offending player may be warned or an offending coach may be
restricted to the bench. If not minor or a subsequent offense, the Umpire shall
eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in the game
being forfeited. Any coach restricted to the bench shall be ejected for further
misconduct. A coach may leave the bench/dugout to attend to a player who
becomes ill or injured.

There is a difference between charging an umpire and charging onto the field.

[jwwashburn]

Good point

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There is a difference between charging an umpire and charging onto the field.

I agree but usually when a HC is charges onto the field it is for the following reasons: (a) A player has become seriously injured; (b) To help quell a bench clearing brawl, (I have never had that happen in either a baseball or softball game yet, knock on my head, but have had it happen once in basketball.); or (c) To vehemently argue a call that an umpire has made. And (c) falls under the sportsmanlike rule and as you said can be either a minor offense or it can be the type where the HC buys the whole enchilada.

MTD, Sr.